Monday, April 22, 2013

Going Mental with The Mentalist

Pam Hillman
Several conversations in writers groups, other authors, and here in Seekerville started me on a journey a few weeks ago. One author asked a group of us if we were analytical, and if we had trouble expressing thoughts, feelings, and emotion in general and in our novels. That really stuck with me, and I pondered it for about a week before emailing her and engaging in dialogue.

Here was my response, “I would have to say yes, although I'm much more open about sharing now than I used to be. Many years ago, a well-known author critiqued one of my stories and said I was ‘almost there’, but that she had the sense I was holding back. I've always contributed that ‘holding back’ to the fact that I'm very reserved, holding my personal feelings, emotions, and thoughts to myself. I've never thought that it was also because I'm analytical.”

A few weeks later, another author made a similar observation on a writers' loop. On a whim, I emailed her and asked her if she would consider herself an analytical thinker, and she gave me a resounding yes. Hmmm, could analytical types have a hard time expressing emotions on the page? It was worth digging into just a bit more.

Now, while I was pondering all of this, another light-bulb moment occurred. Missy Tippens had a great post in Seekerville titled 3 Tips for Hooking Readers where she discussed hooks, emotions, and connecting with readers. But of course, we, as authors have to connect with our characters first, who in turn connect with our readers.

Are you ready for the grand finale? In true Mentalist fashion, it all came about from one sentence in the comments section of Missy’s post...

Readers are drawn to heroines that reflect themselves a lot of the time.” Ruth Logan Herne, "The Chief" on the Personality Test. Just sayin'

Immediately, the analytical part of me started to wonder what the most common personality trait of women, who are our primary readers, would be. And there’s nothing like a personality test and Mr. Google to help me find the answer to that burning question. A hop, skip, and a jump across the internet and I found what I was looking for. The My Personality website. What a perfect place to go a little mental!

Note: Several of you participated in a personality test to help with this blog post. Thank you!! For those who missed the test and would like to take it, go to the My Personality website and take the Basic Personality test. But come straight back to Seekerville, because there’s more…

So, now that everyone has taken the test and has their 4 letter personality type in hand, let’s get down to the meat of this blog post.

Are you ready?

Today's post is not about what we are at all...'s about what we are not.

Of the respondents who took the personality test, 94% did not fall into one of the two most common personality types for women. As you can see from the personality chart above, the two most common personality types for women are ESFJ “The Suppporter” at 17% and ESFP “The Entertainer” at 14%.

That’s a whopping 31% of all women.

94% of authors who took this personality test are not ESFJ or ESFP. That means that 94% of the authors responding don't have the same personality traits as the majority of women.
The good news is that I’ve read books by almost all of the authors who responded to my survey, and they have no trouble writing heroines with personalities sprinkled all across the personality map, so most of us don't need to do a thing. This isn’t to make anyone think they need to change the way they write at all, but is just another tool to add to our tool kits if someone struggles with this.

Now, what to do about this conundrum?

One way to write outside of our personality zone is to think of people whose personalities are similar to the top two most popular categories, or watch movies with those characters. Study those personality traits on the My Personality site, and practice writing an ESFJ or an ESFP character.

"For the ESFP, the entire world is a stage. They love to be the center of attention and perform for people. They're constantly putting on a show for others to entertain them and make them happy. They enjoy stimulating other people's senses, and are extremely good at it. They would love nothing more than for life to be a continual party, in which they play the role of the fun-loving host."

The above description does not fit me at all, but I know people like this (Captain Jack comes to mind! lol). I can write about them. I can study them  in movies, and learn how better to portray them on the page.

Time has gotten away from me, and I would love to delve deeper into this topic. Many of you also sent me your three strengths and weaknesses as a writer, and I wish I could have incorporated that into this post. There just wasn’t time or room to discuss it all.

We'll talk more in the comments about the different personality traits and how we can use them ... not to label or change ourselves ... but as a tool to help us write characters readers relate to on a more personal level.

Today's giveaway is a copy (print or eBook) of Brandilyn Collins'
Please specify in the comments if you would like to be in the drawing.

~ ~ ~

In light of her father’s death, Mariah Malone sends a letter that will forever alter the lives of her family. When Slade Donovan, strong willed and eager for vengeance, shows up on her front porch, Mariah is not ready to hear his truths: her father’s farm, the only home she’s ever known, was bought with stolen gold. With Slade ready to collect his father’s rightful claim and force Mariah and her family out on the streets, Mariah must turn to God for guidance. Though Mr. Fredrick Cooper, a local landowner, promises to answer her financial woes if she agrees to be his bride, Mariah finds herself drawn instead to the angry young man demanding her home.

Pam Hillman was born and raised on a dairy farm in Mississippi and spent her teenage years perched on the seat of a tractor raking hay. In those days, her daddy couldn’t afford two cab tractors with air conditioning and a radio, so Pam drove the Allis Chalmers 110. Even when her daddy asked her if she wanted to bale hay, she told him she didn’t mind raking. Raking hay doesn’t take much thought so Pam spent her time working on her tan and making up stories in her head. Now, that’s the kind of life every girl should dream of! Claiming Mariah is her second novel.


  1. Ummmmmm, I'm the most rare female personality there is, second rarest personality over-all. Which, when I learned I was an INTJ, a LOT of why I don't "get" people made sense and why I was viewed by others as I was.

    So even if you don't write, take the test anyway, it could be very enlightening.

    And yes, I'm analytical and have trouble emoting enough to make people happy with my characters. My emoting is so subtle, I expect everyone to see it...and no one my characters have to emote more than I do. But I've learned to put in more. When I think the characters are going over the top in their emoting, my crit partner is finally happy with the results.

    It can be learned!

  2. Oh my stars, it's Monday and I'm the SECOND PERSON?????

    Egads, clearly the world ended overnight!!! (kidding, kidding, kidding...but checking outside, just to see.... chickens? CHECK! Annoying cats? CHECK!!! Spring birds? YAY!!!!)

    Coffee is here!

    Taking this test was fun. It was also annoying because I'm sure most of us wanted to pick a choice IN THE MIDDLE between two choices. The absolutism of it made me want to lash out irrationally... and then it was pretty darn accurate as to my BOSSY AND INSENSITIVE personality type, so I stopped ranting and raving.

    I told youse the story of the one time I tried to make an HSP (read: WHINY) heroine....(I will be in BIG TROUBLE for saying that in the halls of the Seekerville lunch room, mark my words!!!!) and my editor e-mailed me and said "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THIS WONDERFUL HEROINE????"

    And I said, "Trying to make her more sensitive and submissive..."


    I may or may not have paraphrased that last part. :)

    Anyway, I think most writers tuck a corner of themselves into their characters... and probably a spoonful of what they WISH their mates would "get" into their heroes! And then that kind of heroine will be representative of the people it tends to draw...

    But my degree in diapers gives me no expertise in any of this, LOL! So I brought home-made bagels again... There are plain... salt-topped...Italian Parmesan (The spice mix was a little heavy on garlic and salt, I think... bring mouthwash...) and Cinnamon crunch.

    Cream cheese... butter... toaster, if desired!

    Happy Monday from "The Chief"...(you know I will never live that down, right?????)

  3. I'm going to take that test after work today.

    You bet I'm analytical. I'm a pharmacist. I have to analyze Dr's handwriting, look for drug interactions, argue with insurance companies often to get the med paid for, and decide if a person is running all over town to get pain meds from different doctors at different stores. Those are just the first steps I take to fill a prescription.

    I think I'm going to learn a lot from this test. I tried to teach my kids to keep a "poker face" so everybody wouldn't know what they were thinking all of the time. Ha!

    Pam, you've really opened my eyes.

    Thanks so much for this post today.

    Jackie L.
    (I've got Brandilyn's book and it's great. I've got notes and high lights all through the book.)

  4. I had finished the book recently.this is excellent book.

    non fiction marketing

  5. Love, love personality tests! I always end up INFP.
    I need to go check the chart and see what it says.
    I don't know if I'm analytical but even though I love to use emotion in writing, in life I'm fairly reserved (unless I've got a shot of caffeine in me, lol)
    Great post, Pam!

  6. I learned about my personality right now. I'm a bit impatient--went straight to the test that combined the most questions until I noticed when I was almost done there is a fee of $29 to learn which personality type I fit. I wish I would know sooner or be warned before I take the test. But I'm always rushing to do things since time is my only enemy.
    I don't want to spend extra money now, but after taking so much time to take the test, I'm a bit angry to let it just go.

  7. Emotion is driving everything I write. I don't need to take a test to know it.

    And I know that I fit in the middle. I can be creative, and I do enjoy to critique my own work to make it better. I enjoy both: creating and editing.

    I always loved math until I fell in love with writing.

    So I might be an unsuall writer who writes in a moment of inspiration or plots every detail to the story. Everything works for me as long as I'm working at something. :)

    I might stop and smell the roses, then run to the end of the day not recalling other details.

    By taking another personality test, I'm a person who borrows traits from other personalities to suit my needs at any given moment.
    The Female Messiah from 45 Master Characters by Virginia Schmidt fits this description.

  8. Really interesting, Pam! I didn't realize I should be making my characters more dramatic than I am. A heroine should be the belle of the ball, not the wallflower. I'd rather sit in a corner and watch! But maybe that's because I'm past the age of caring which one I am.

  9. Oh, this explains so much! I am an ESTJ, T/F really. I learned years ago my E and J are really dominant. I have been an overseer/encourager my whole life.

    But I am still rather intellectual. Melissa, you made me feel less alone! And I have hope!

    Pam, this helps me feel like I am going less against the current when I write. Blessings upon you for this post!

    Peace, Julie

  10. ISTJ. a predominantly male personality, a natural leader, analyzer and 'difficult to tune into other people's feelings'. Well, I think I've made up for that last part with effort but it's very true that I have to work hard at bringing out the emotion in my characters. I'm a do-er, so I tend to go heavy into plot.

    Thanks Pam, I've analyzed this before to see how it can be both a strength and weakness in my writing. The good thing is that in my obsessive analyzing (charts and lists and notes galore) I dig deeper to find the emotion that I know is there.

  11. Pam, what a great post! I definitely need to think through this to make my characters, um, better. :) I am an analyzer at heart.

    I haven't taken the test recently, but when I did it MANY years ago, I was an ESTJ. I'd be curious to know if I changed since then. :) I hope to take the test later today. :)


    DEBRA, did you know that about 90% of people in the military are ISTJ's? Including my husband. :) I find personality tests fascinating.

  12. DEBRA!!! I'm an ISTJ, too.
    One of my career possibilities was STEELWORKER. (Those heavy boots do make your ankles look slim!!!)

    So translate that: I'm a judgmental loner with repressed feelings and wants only the facts.

    I think I just described Sgt. Joe Friday. The facts, Ma'am. Only the facts. I can't remember the list, was cop on that list?

  13. Those tests are hard to do, I think. The answers are back and forth. Do you like watching lambs frolic? Do you like to sit alone?

    Do you like to watch lambs frolic while you're alone.

    I don't know. I think I answer one way and then another. Back and forth. The personality Test Site probably will blow up later today from the stress of defining me.

    Do you like a window slammed on your fingers or would you rather have a rat bite you?

    Uhhhh....mmmmm...??? Window?

    Wow, (the test says) you're an introvert.


  14. Melissa, first of all, INTJs are in a class all by themselves...they rule the world. Wear your INTJ status proudly! :)

    Could you share some practical ways you've added more emotions to your characters? I'm sure Seekerville would love to hear some examples!

    Ah, Ruthy, THANK you for the coffee!!!! I need it.

    Adding a splash of English toffee sweetener to mine.

  15. Ruthy said: most of us wanted to pick a choice IN THE MIDDLE...

    SO true...but even though I waffled between a few of the answers, I tried to answer the one I'm MOST like most of the time. I'm not sure where on this test "indecisiveness" falls, but that is definitely one of my weaknesses, so the very simple straightforward way this test was laid out worked for me.

    I'm thinking of taking it again, just to see if mood, circumstances, etc. changes some of my answers. I know it would be a lot, but just curious.

    Oh, and btw, I'm an ISTJ, "The Examiner".

  16. Ruthy, my ignorance is showing, but what does HSP stand for?

  17. HI PAM, I love personality tests. So fun because they are all about me. LOL

    Anyway, know the crit comments about putting more feeling in the female characters. I think sometimes we do hold back because we don't want to expose ourselves.

    Great post Pammers.

    CARA you are tooooooo funny. But I know what you're sayin.

  18. Hey Chief, you wrote a book in your first comment! lol

    I had SO much I wanted to put in today's post, but I wanted to focus on the basics. Goodness, we've got ALL day to discuss this in Seekerville.

    It's Writing 101...for free. lol

    When looking at my own heroines, they all seemed too much like me. I find it interesting that some of my writer friends can write heroines that with such different personalities to their own.

    Ruthy did a great job with Kayla Doherty in Winter's End. I think I'd categorize Kayla as an ISFJ.

    "At work, ISFJs contribute loyal, sympathetic, consistent, and considerate service to others. They are known for their kindness and for their willingness to go to any length to help those in need. They take the practical needs of people into account when they do their work, and their strong follow-through skills allow them to carry out organizational goals. They do at least what is expected to them and oftentimes more, without attracting attention to themselves. They are painstaking and responsible with detail and routine, and feel it is important to have the right things in the right places at the right times."

  19. Thanks Pam--I needed this post because I've been struggling with writing a character who is NOT like me, and it's been a challenge. I definitely plan to take that personality test (not sure where a "crazy cat lady" will rank, LOL).

    Please enter me in the drawing for Brandilyn's Character book--that's been on my "To Buy" list for a while.
    Hugs from Georgia, Patti Jo

  20. Congratulations again to the Top 101 Writer's Digest bloggers!

    Here's another reason why.

    I've not taken one of these in awhile and no time just now, but I will. Took awhile to find where the basic test was. Wondering if there's a fee for it, or just the big one? brought up the $29 fee. I'd not started the test (need to be editing!) so no time OR $$ invested as of yet.

    Your premise is excellent and I'll use as I'm continuing on.

    Thanks Pam!

  21. PS - don't enter me in the drawing. Have BC's excellent book already! :)

  22. One other thing in Ruthy's comment before I move on.

    Ruthy is RIGHT (of course) in that we don't ever want to shoe-horn a heroine into a personality that doesn't fit her.

    My take is that writers generally are students of human nature, a lot of this is in our subconscious from our own observations, books and movies we've read and seen. So we write various personalities intuitively.

    Using a nurse again. I'm not a nurse, never had the desire to be one, but my idea of a nurse is a kind, compassionate person who has a desire to take care of sick people, help them get well, and care for them in their last days.

    If I write a nurse who doesn't exhibit those characteristics, I need to be able to explain why. Because there is a reason.

    I might have a character who's natural inclination is a strong ISFJ personality (which would make an excellent nurse), but due to life's circumstances, she's been forced to learn and display traits that don't come naturally to her.

    Oh, and here's another thought: How evident is one's personality when they're plopped down in the middle of a romantic suspense like Debby writes? Or a shoot-em-up like Mary writes?

    Unusual circumstances can overshadow a character's natural personality, but shouldn't completely obliterate it.

  23. Jackie, I can't wait to see how you test out. I thought for sure I was an INTJ, but I tested as a ISTJ.

    Those second letters "N" and "S" are opposites of each other.

    S=Sensing. I tested 74%
    N=Intuition. I tested 26%

    So I wasn't too far off.

  24. Fun, Pam! I'm a sucker for a personality test.

    LOL--like I don't already know I'm 100% INTROVERT!!!

    I've done similar tests in the past and can't remember if my results came out exactly the same, but this time I am . . .



    Which, according to the site, is only 1% of the entire world's population. So, see? I always knew I was "different"!

    And . . . one of the career choices was . . .


  25. Jessica, practical examples?

    Obviously I struggle with this, since I'm asking you guys for examples! lol

    Okay, I need to pony up if I'm going to ask for suggestions...

    Hmmmm...the complete opposite of my personality would be an ENFP. I can't think of protagonist I've written who is an ENFP, but Sally Winston in Claiming Mariah is a secondary character that fits: outgoing, bubbly, caring, friendly, probably would be a nurse in another time period.

    Actually, one of the "occupations" for an ENFP is church worker. Goodness, if a preacher's wife isn't a church worker, I don't know what is!

  26. Oh, and HSP stands for "highly sensitive person." This is another personality type studied and written about by psychologist Elaine Aron.

    I am also HSP.

  27. Anna, sorry you went straight to the paid version of the test. I encouraged everyone to take the Basic version for that very reason. :(

    And I like the fact that you're middle of the road on most of those questions. In my totally unscientific opinion, that would make you an excellent student of human nature and easily able to write varying personality traits.

  28. Cara, lol! Yep, I can relate. Like you, I'd rather sit and watch, and I was that way even when I was young and chipper. :)

    I like your analogy of the wallflower vs. the belle of the ball.

    Some heroines are perfectly suited to be wallflowers, some to be the belle. We just need to make them true to form. We think the belle has more personality, more passion, more emotions, but the wallflower can too...

    The wallflower might have deep longings hidden beneath the surface. Maybe she LONGS to be the belle, but only for the special man of her heart. She dreams of having the courage to glide across the dance floor, smiling and laughing into his (and only his) handsome face.

    ...that's the trick for me as a writer. That author years ago told me I was holding back. That's the kind of thing I think she was talking about. Showing emotion for that character that is perceived as a bland, ho-hum wallflower.

    PS. Our wallflower gets her chance to shine when she dances with her hero alone on the candlelit patio at the end of the book/movie.

    Romantic sigh.

    PSS. All wallflowers are not the same. This is just one example of a wallflower's transfomation. Another wallflower might be chafing at the bit to get out of the stiffy, starchy ball gown so she can go down to the wharf and feed the hungry. She might see all the glitter, glitz, laughing, flirting as trivial and a waste of time.

    Either way, the important thing is to put her thoughts (dialogue with someone if possible), her angst, and her feelings on the page.

  29. Julie HS, for some reason my intuition tells me you write contemporaries.

    Am I correct?

  30. Hi Pam,

    What fun for a Monday! I know I've done this before but I took it again. Felt like Mary ping-ponging back and forth!!

    Turns out Myra and I are TWINS! I'm 100% introvert and INFJ Confidant!

    That's me - tell me your problems and I'll listen and give advice!

    I laughed at one question: the one about being the center of attention. The answer 'uncomfortable' was no where near extreme enough for me. They should have said 'tortuous' and that would have been closer! LOL.

    Now to make sure I dream up an extroverted heroine! I'll use my husband and friends as examples. Funny how us introverts always get paired up with extroverts. Hmmm....

    I'd love to be in the drawing!

    sbmason at sympatico dot ca

  31. Debra Marvin: Thanks Pam, I've analyzed this before to see how it can be both a strength and weakness in my writing. The good thing is that in my obsessive analyzing (charts and lists and notes galore) I dig deeper to find the emotion that I know is there.

    Pam sez: Exactly.

    And Ruthy is cringing at all this analyzing and charts. Just bear with us, Ruthy, dear... the levity will all be over soon and Seekerville can return to normal tomorrow.

    BTW, I'm starving!

    Brunch is served. Waffles anyone?

    Fruit on the sideboard: pineapple, grapes, orange slices, bananas (sorry, peel your own), apples.

    Fresh churned butter (boy, was that cow hard to catch!) and Mrs. Butterworth's maple syrup. Sorry, I'm from Mississippi. No maple trees here. Anybody got the REAL stuff?

  32. Oh, yum, and Ruthy brought bagels. Thank you!!

  33. ISTJ - Yes, Mary, police, military and judge are all listed as ISTJ'ers. lol

  34. Actually, I just finished a historical. But you are right, everyone does seem to be writing historicals.

    But I feel like I struggle with creating characters who are not me and end up with a book that is too straght-forward and dry!

    Peace, Julie

  35. Sandra said: I think sometimes we do hold back because we don't want to expose ourselves.

    Pam: I can't speak for others, but this is true for me. But I had to learn to separate my own tendency to hold back from my characters. My characters have to SPILL ALL...if not to the other characters, at least to the reader.

    For some of us, it might not be an overnight process. First, we have to recognize it, then we have to act on it.

    Case in point: Ten years ago, Seekerville and certainly not the entire world wide web, would have had access to this post or these comments by me. I might have studied it, tried to understand it, but I would never, ever have exposed my thoughts publicly.

    Growth, people, growth.

  36. Patti Jo, a crazy cat lady is a loving, generous, compassionate person. Much like a nurse, I would think.

    Are you also a nurse or love caregiving?

    DISCLAIMER: That's a total shot in the dark! I'm in NO way licensed to make any kind of assessment of anyone's personality! Half the time I don't even know my own...

  37. KC, there is no fee for the basic test. There are about 75 questions and it took me 5 mins. 10 max.

    Oh, and for fun, have May take it too! Wouldn't that be cool???

  38. SUE!!! Waving to my twinkie!!! Yep, I also married an extravert. Discussions about whether or not to attend any given social engagement are always fraught with landmines! I'm getting mellower as I age--or maybe getting more practice attempting to be social--but it's still exhausting.

    The nice thing about writers conferences and all the socializing there is that MOST everyone understands--except for the Ruthys among us!

    And, RUTHY, HSPs are not necessarily whiners. We're just generally more sensitive and need our down time away from the world.

  39. Thanks for reminding us what a HSP is, Myra. I was supposed to know that. lol

    Another test? Yikes!

    Not sure I can take learning more about myself today... ha

  40. DEBRA you write historicals romance? So far every ISTJ respondent writes historicals...

    Just sayin'

  41. Susan, same here. I do not want to be the center of attention. Years ago when I was on the ACFW board, someone (I think it was ROBIN MILLER!!!) had the bright idea that each one of the board members would say the blessing at one of the meals.

    I was terrified, but determined to do my duty. That was the year we had meals in a huge open terraced area in the lobby of the hotel. Pretty and intimate, but not conducive to corporate prayer because no one could hear the speaker. They quickly decided to let each table pray independently and dispense with the corporate prayer.


    Oh, btw, the 2013 ACFW Conference Registration opened yesterday! Whoo-hoo! :)

  42. Very interesting, Pam! I am ENFJ The Mentor.


    Writer is one of the jobs that fit my temperament. Whew, that's a relief! Honestly, I often felt both answers fit or neither fit.
    :-) Always a trouble maker in every group.


  43. After revival services Wed. night through yesterday morning, was beat and went to bed early last night.

    I just took the test and found myself in interesting company. Like Mary, Debra, and Pam, I'm ISTJ.

    Is that bad or good??????


  44. Pam, I had to jump back in to answer your question to me-- I'm not a nurse but DO love caregiving (helped care for my precious parents before they passed away)--and being a mom and former kindergarten teacher have discovered I also LOVE to nurture (yep, I'm one of those ladies who talks to her houseplants, hoping the violets will bloom, LOL). Not to mention feeding all the stray cats in my area *sigh*. ~ Thanks again for this post! ~ Hugs, Patti Jo

  45. Janet, I ran into that too. I just tried to answer the one that I felt the STRONGEST about!

    Helen, that is VERY good! lol

  46. Patti Jo, nurse/teacher/caregiver, what's the difference? lol

    Seriously, all three are under the same personality profile. I won't tell you which one it is.

    We'll let you take the test instead. :)

  47. Hi Pam:

    This post has made my day!
    I love it!
    It’s a virtual ‘quote machine’!
    Where do I begin?

    I think you can either change your characters to meet the needs of your story (e.g., plotters picking characters as needed from central casting ) or you can change your story to match the personalities of your characters. (e.g., pantsers getting to know their characters as the story progresses.)

    I think the best use of personality tests is to have each of your characters take the test before and after the novel is written. That way you can evaluate how any personality changes relate to their ARCs.

    A pantser trying to give her characters personality traits will probably cause them to go on strike! Why would you spend all that time trying to get to know your characters if you just intend to change them anyway? (They are not husbands, you know.) A pantser is more likely to be changed by her characters than vice versa! I mean, a character has a better view of what is in an author’s head than the author does.

    And is this premise even true: “Women like heroines that are like them?” I believe one of the benefits of fiction is to ‘live’ other lives. I think we all like to read about characters we’d like to be more than characters who are most like us. How many heroines spend their time reading romances?

    Moral Premise: Just write a great story that rewards the reader many times per page for reading and leave the psychoanalyzing up to Freud, God, and compulsive plotters : )


    P.S. I took the 214 question personality test but they wanted $29 to provide the results and I wouldn’t pay it. I guess that makes me CHEAP.

    P.P.S. Please put me down for BCs book. I’ve long held that the best training for writers is to get some live stage acting experience. When you act you get to see at once how your body language affects an audience. It also makes you audience conscious. Always be thinking: how will what I am writing right now affect the reader.

  48. I always knew I had a personality like Albert Einstein, INTP, complete with hair sticking up in all directions. Yes, love science and math, walking around oblivious to what's happening around me. Fortunately, none of my characters are anything like me, but it might explain why I relate better to my heros than to my heroines. Most INTPs are male, but I'm married to an extrovert.

  49. Oh my gosh, I'm so confused.

    I took one psychology class in college.

    Uh. I took a screen shot of my test because there's no way I can truly absorb the acronym and percentages BEFORE COFFEE.

    So, INFJ 'the confidant'.

    I haven't really taken the time to go through this, but the title makes me laugh.

    My friends and I always laugh at how many random people give me their life story.... that I don't want to hear. Really. My imagination is better than your ex-husband-is-a-skunk story.

    Anyway, I do love a heroine that is NOT like myself! When I think of favorite heroines, I think of Emma, Mr. Sharp in Leviathan (a she, it's a complicated), Elisa from Crown of Embers (fearless leader and queen!), Flavia De Luce from Alan Bradley's mystieries (fearless and brilliant and loves dead bodies).

    Interesting article. Now I'm conflicted because I realize all those examples are outgoing, fearless types. Which I am not, but maybe fit higher on the spectrum than myself. So, were they written for the people that are LIKE the heroines?

    I've just totally confused myself.


    HAHAHAHAHA! Ruthy, you totally made me cackle.

  51. LOL, Debra!

    I read "ISTJ. a predominantly male personality, a natural leader"

    as 'natural BREEDER'.

    *eye boggle*

  52. OHHHH!!!

    Did you click the 'Personality Types of Fictional Characters' link???

    How interesting!!

  53. Pam, I meant to comment on the contemp/historical for ISTJ's.

    I wrote contemporaries until the three book historical series I just finished.

  54. VIRGINIA--another INFJ!

    PAM, I forgot to mention earlier how fun it was to see the photo of Simon Baker on your blog today. He's the actor who served as inspiration for the hero of When the Clouds Roll By. Sooooo cute!

  55. Hooray for growth PAM and the waffles are yummy. I'm so glad you caught the cow because the fresh churned butter doesn't even need maple syrup. yummmm

  56. I am SO happy!!! Vince GETS it, and I stand in AWE of Vince.

    Thank you, kind sir, for your kind words.

    Vince also asked, And is this premise even true: “Women like heroines that are like them?”

    I've been pondering this myself, Vince. No offense, Ruthy, :) but ESFJs (17% of women according to this site) are more likely to be out shopping, hosting parties, enjoying life, than sitting at home reading.

    Another disclaimer: You all know that we're using the EXTREMES here, right?

    Only 5-6% of my respondents are ESFJ. One in particular is an amazing award-winning author who loves to read, but she also loves interacting with people.

    So, this isn't an either/or proposition.

    Just sayin'

  57. Elaine, honey, you do have that Einstein gleam in your eye... lol

  58. P.S. Vince, take the test for cheapos, like myself. The first button on the left. Ignore the arrow 'pop up' directing you to the paid option.

  59. Virginia, it's 1 pm (that's afternoon, dear) my time, and you're just now having coffee?

    Maybe that's the problem... :)

    But I do agree that sometimes I get in sticky spots by trying to be nice and friendly and then have to listen to the long, rambling, ex-husband-is-a-skunk story, too.

    Sometimes I just shut my mouth and wonder what possessed me to be so friendly.

  60. Virginia said: I read "ISTJ. a predominantly male personality, a natural leader" ... as 'natural BREEDER'.

    Somebody please give Virginia more COFFEE! lol

  61. RUTH LOGAN HERNE! HSP's are WHINY???? You're right. You got in trouble for that comment!


    Now, on to the post. What an interesting conclusion, Pam! I'm ISFP, The Artist, one of only 7% of the female population. I look forward to finding out what more of you are!

  62. Ah yes, Simon Baker. We've been so busy talking about US and our characters, we've left The Mentalist in the dust.

    And, last night I was SLAVING over this blog post and PEPPER was watching The Mentalist. No fair!

    Mr. Baker would have made a guest appearance today in character as Patrick Jane but he had a prior engagement. He sends his regrets and invited everyone to watch The Mentalist on a television near your recliner at your convenience.

  63. Pam!

    It's only 11:35 here! Noontime coffee!!

    Ok, I've had three kids take the test. Ages? 9, 11, 13

    They ALL are INTP 'the engineer'.

    If I knew more about this test I would be making some assumptions, but as it is, I'm just scratching my head.

    And I had fun reading about all the personality types. I swear I recognized people!!!

    I've never seen the mentalist. But I've loved Simon Baker since 'The Devil Wears Prada'. Gorgeous man.

  64. I missed out on The Mentalist--didn't start watching it when it first premiered. Maybe this summer during rerun season for all my other favorite programs, I'll see if I can start the series from the beginning on Hulu or Netflix or somewhere.

  65. I've seen several episodes of The Mentalist with my friend at the nursing home.

    All of the episode titles have the word RED (or some variation: Ruby, Flame, etc.) in them.

    The reason is pretty cool.

  66. VINCE I accidentally took the long one first too. I also wouldn't pay, mainly because I felt like I was all over the map contradicting myself.
    I logged out, hunted around and took the basic test for free.
    It's one thing to be analyzed for free, it's another to be CHARGED for it.

  67. LOL, Mary, isn't that what psychiatrists do?

  68. Sorry I'm stopping by late...was in the city all day at a CDC Conference, hearing about all sorts of outbreaks. The stuff I love.

    I also LOVE Myers Briggs! Which this comes from. Went to a big seminar on it years ago and took the long, long test. As I recall, I was a ESFJ then. Still am.

    So many thing can be gleaned from the personality inventories.

    BTW, did you know that Js make lists...a big time J will make lists each day and then check off what he/she gets done.

    A P has trouble coming to closure. When dealing with that personality type, it's important to give options. "We can eat at Ruby Tuesday's or at Chili's." Without limiting the choices, a P will have a hard time making a decision.

    Anyone have trouble deciding what to order when at a restaurant with a group? You could be a P.

    I always gather information from others before I make a decision, so I'll ask everyone what they're ordering before I decide for myself.

    Know anyone who's always late? That's a big P trait as well.

    My young granddaughter is an introvert. After being at school all day, she needs quiet time in her room before she joins in family activities. Her extrovert mom thought something was wrong at first before we talked about where introverts get their energy.

    Another thing I once heard...

    Jesus was right down the middle.

    Must head to the gym. I've been sitting all day and need to move this body. :)

  69. Love this discussion. What a thought-provoking post, too. I found that a few beta readers and judges found my heroine (way back in the early drafts) to be too introverted. Her self-sacrificing behavior came off as mousy and weak, because she was quiet. Now, umteen drafts later, she's much easier for stronger folks to identify with (or at least empathize). I like the changes in reader response, and she's still a character I can love as her writer. I learned all of this without realizing the vocabulary for it, but your post was spot on. From now on, I'll use it in my very first stages of character development.

  70. Oh! And please enter me in the drawing!

  71. Debby, that's so interesting. And yep, I'm a J to a "tee".

    And Jesus being right down the middle. For some reason, that makes perfect sense!

    Have fun a the gym. I'm going to get on the elliptical in a little while...right after I take a nap! lol

  72. The Mentalist is my number one TV show.

    Will go take the test to be sure I am not a Red John.

  73. I am another INFJ. I've enjoyed reading to see what everyone else came up as.

    Congrats Seekerville!!! But I think it's more like the top 10!

    I would love to win the book. It looks interesting.

  74. Waving to Donna! Interesting to discover such a high concentration of INFJs here in Seekerville!

    Or maybe it's not so weird after all! ;-)

    BTW, just added all previous seasons of The Mentalist to my Netlix queue. Five seasons could take most of the summer.

  75. This comment has been removed by the author.

  76. Pam,

    Checking in. Another historical person who is ISTJ. What is that? Weird! But fun...thank you for the post!


  77. Waving back to Myra! A lot of the one percent are here.

    I went back to the personality test and printed out the characteristics of the two most common personality types for women, that you mentioned in your post. I think this will be a great help when trying to make my heroines likeable. Thanks,Pam!

  78. I have always enjoyed taking personality tests. Does that say something about me...I wonder? I'm short on time today but before weeks end I will be taking this one. Thank you for the link and great post Pam.

    I would love to be entered in your giveaway for a print book. Thank you for the opportunity.

    Smiles & Blessings,
    Cindy W.

    countrybear52 AT yahoo DOT com

  79. Pam, great post. From one ISTJ to another: I always knew you were a rockin' woman.

    Our dominant (strongest) trait is sensing. Thinking is our auxiliary (secondary) trait. Sensing is the one we use in our personal world--in our heads. Thinking is how we deal with the outside world.

    This is because we are introverts, so our main trait is reserved for ourselves--our inner world--whereas the auxiliary is used to deal with the outside world. It's the opposite for extroverts.

    The final letter of a personality type--P (sensing or intuitive) or J (thinking or feeling) --refers to the trait used for the outside world. So for introverts, the J or P refers to our auxiliary. Whereas for extroverts, the J or P refers to the dominant.

  80. Yes PAM - historical all the way.

    Yes MARY C - just the facts, ma'am.
    I have simple needs, Just tell me what I need to do and why and I'll get it done.

    So military. ISTJ's LOVE ORDER.
    Perhaps Nuns are ISTJ also?

    And Ginny Mary Virginia, I might be a natural breeder as well. 3 kids in 4 yrs and the practical side of me said ENOUGH.

    I can't see where the connection would be for ISTJs writing historicals, but that's pretty interesting!

    I've had these done at two different jobs. Always interesting to see how people best work together.

    And here I thought we were just going to talk about Simon Baker.

    Hey - so does anyone else think that Jimmy the new footman on Downton Abbey look like Simon Baker's little brother?

  81. Bethany, so glad you stopped by. You're in the drawing, girl!

    And I love how you worked through the character growth with your heroine without knowing the personality traits ahead of time.

    That's they way I learn: by doing. Slow, but steady, and sometimes over and over and over again.

  82. Tina, lol, please let us know if you're a Red John.

  83. PIPER!!! ISTJ?
    and I liked your new facebook page. Way to go!

  84. I just took the test and am a ISFJ - The "Defender"

    I was higher in Introvert (which I knew I was) and Sensing.
    I have to say I want a middle or none of the above category for a few.

    I got 79% introvert and 63% for the SFJ.

    It does say some of the jobs are admin, (which is what I want,) also says Dr not me. and writer.

    They do not seek positions of authority. That is me!!!!!!!!!! I want to be the worker not the manager.

  85. Myra, you're going to love it. And Simon Baker played in another show before The Mentalist, when he was much younger. My friend Karen and I watched several episodes of it too.

    "The Guardian"

    We enjoyed that show as well.

  86. Donna, hope that helps, but like Ruthy said, don't try to shoe-horn a personality on your heroines. :)

    I wish you and your next heroine good luck working TOGETHER to make her as well-rounded (personality-wise!) as everyone who has commented today.

  87. Hi Pam:

    I think Mary may be the best psychologist. She says to make your characters likeable, have others like them. (even have pets like them).

    Think about it: likeability in itself may be largely independent of personality type. Any personality type can be likeable or unlikeable. In fact, likeability is as factor of both the 'likee' and the 'likeor'. Look how many combinations of that there are! Occam's razor* alone would prove Mary right!


    *The logical theory that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

  88. Thanks for stopping by, Cindy. Got you down for the drawing. Let us know how your test comes out.

    And don't go to the testing center with Tina.

    Just sayin'

  89. Brandilyn, thanks so much for popping in and giving us a little more detail on how the traits complement and contrast each other.


  90. Tina, at least your psychotic side isn't showing. That's a good thing!

    We've had more people post their type today, so the numbers are even more skewed...

    Less than 4% of our numbers are ESFJ “The Suppporter” and ESFP “The Entertainer”, the two most common traits for women.

    I don't know what that means, if anything, to me as an author, other than I want to make sure I'm very conscious of the traits that my character would exhibit, and not try to impose my own personality traits on her.

  91. Well, Debra, we CAN talk about Simon Baker... :)

    I love the show, but seriously, how does he DO that? I know it's just fiction, but how does he pull these judgment calls out of thin air with so much confidence, and we just believe him, hook, line and sinker?

    Maybe there should be a poll for who watches The Mentalist... Men or Women. :)

  92. OH, I don't WATCH the Mentalist. I just look at photos of Simon Baker and think.. how does he do that?

    Pam, is your birthday in October?

    And oh, I don't get the ISTJ for Brandilyn. WHAT? of course being an Introvert doesn't mean SHY, does it?

  93. Tina and Jenny...we're the same except for the I and E.

    Too cool!

    If only I had Tina's technical savvy.

  94. Interesting! I'm ISFJ-Defender?!?! That will be an interesting website to remember for character insights. Thank you, Pam!

  95. Finally got on here and skimmed most of the comments. Wow!

    First of all, please throw my name into the hat for the book. Thanks! :)

    I am an ISFJ "The Defender". Not surprising.

    Introverted: 95% (this is why I avoid meeting people, etc., etc.--and probably why I got hives last May when I was going to meet Ruthy! (Just kidding, Ruthy!) It was a fluke thing, honest...)

    Judging: 63% (ugh--I can be such a legalist at times...want to be better)

    Feeling: 58%

    Sensing: 53%

    Career matches:
    Librarian (LOL--for years I volunteered and subbed in a school library then worked as a Teacher Assistant there for 6 years! I knew I should've gone to college to become a research librarian...)
    Artist (once upon a time considered that, but so glad I didn't--I don't have half the talent our daughter has)
    Church worker: I am the volunteer secretary at our church, among other things
    Editor: ROFL :D
    Researcher: I love doing research for writing AND genealogy
    Typist: *snicker*

    I can be extroverted while typing like this (and then wonder later if I was too goofy or stupid or something), but in person, you aren't getting this.

    Pam, thanks for this! (I do enjoy taking personality quizzes and hadn't done one in a while...)

    Any bagels left? *snagging a crumb on my way to wash dishes*

  96. What fun! I can't believe there's actually a category I fit into, LOL!

    I landed in INFP:


    Princess Diana, ET, John-Luke-Mary- and Wesley Crusher...

    AND Jessica Nelson!!!!!!!

    What better company could I want??

    LOL! This was fun, Pam!

  97. I'm an INFP too Audra :) I first took this test in the early 80's and am still the same. A dreamer,that about sums it up.

  98. First off, I LOVE the show the MENTALIST, but my life is currently full of toddler programming. Good thing I'm an animator, I can enjoy study how the shows were created while my little guy absorbs his show.

    okay, so i took a myers-briggs on a different site and got the ISFJ result. I clicked the post link and took the freebie test and got INFJ: the Confident. in the first the S % was 50%, in the second, the N % was 65%.

    So, this juxtaposition worries me. Is it possible for me to go either way with the N/S aspect? Both profile descriptions (Defender or Confidant) and the accompanying occupations seem to fit. Just wondering if I don't know myself very well, or if I'm just weird.

    I've taken oodles of personality tests over the years. One thing that has NEVER changed is the I and J aspects. the middle two initials seem to flip-flop quite a bit.

    I know I'm a bit odd, but just how odd am I according to these results? I'm far to cheap to purchase any further analyzing. Should I have someone who knows me well take it with me to correct any personal misconceptions I may possess? Just wondering...

    of course, i'm loving this post and the accompanying commentary here. gotta love my daily dose of Seekerville.

  99. p.s.

    would like to be considered for the book. looks uber interesting.

  100. Deb H, your close. November! :)

    Ah, you just look at his picture. Not me. I watch the SHOW. Sheesh. lol

    Sherrinda and Melanie, thanks for stopping by. And we can ALL be extraverts in Seekerville.

  101. I'm with you, Debra, I don't watch the show, but I like looking at him. I know him from Something New, so I watch that movie whenever it is on (and dh is not around!) He's the perfect romantic hero in it--I think it is listed on HQ guidelines.

    And It was strongly suggested that we get the author page after chapter meeting on I've been doing some construction and settling up my blog. Glad you like it!


  102. DebH, got you down for the drawing. And looks like most of us haven't flip/flopped, but if you are close to 50/50 on one of the traits, I would say you could flip back and forth.

    I took this test again, just to see if I might really flip...My percentages changed a little (there are some questions that I'd just rather say "NEITHER" to, lol.

  103. Cool post, Pam! And of course, I had to take the test.

    ISTJ. What do you know? The same personality as Mary Connealy. I'm in good company!

    And I write historicals, too. :-)

    It's interesting to me that that personality is more male than female and tends to be military/police careers.

    By the way, Pam. I recently downloaded and read both your books. LOVED them! Can't wait for your next one.

  104. WOW, Pammy, this is WAY cool!! Sorry it took so long for me to comment -- actually read it this morning, but then tried to take the test and got frustrated when my computer lost the test page after I took it.

    Sooo I came back tonight and am pretty shocked at how accurate this thing is. I mean any personality test that can nail me as "prone to crying, not spontaneous and unable to say "no," is pretty DEAD-ON!! I am an ISFJ ... but I'm in good company with Tina, Sherida, Jenny, Melanie and Deb H!!

    Fun post, Pammers!!


  105. Ooh! Continued reading my results and it says my personality tends to match well with this career: Librarian.


    Nailed it. I'm a librarian.

  106. Pam -- sorry I missed this! Personality tests are fun--I think every place I've ever worked had us take one as a team 'bonding' activity and to help us identify our strengths & weaknesses. I've kept the tests and have used them to develop story characters.

  107. This post was so enlightening! I had done a little research on these personality types on when creating the characters in my WIP, but I'd never thought about finding the most popular or relatable. So insightful! Thank you, Pam!

    Put my name in for the book, please!

  108. I have to say while im an introvert I love meeting people! But put me in a crowd and Im the one wallflower on the edge. I am good one on one or a small group but to get me up front to do something I would have Melaine Pikes hives!
    Although I am starting to change my perception of myself its taking alot of doing to undo damage peoples comments did over the years but its starting to happen so maybe when I get some self confidence I will be a new woman!

    I am also good at going away to meet people. No hives about meeting 5 seekerville people in Atlanta just excitement. Same with the tour of all strangers no fear there either but then I am not the centre of attention. Also they dont know me so haven't prejudged me!

    by the way in 2 weeks we would have met!

  109. Hey Julie I knew we had something in common!

  110. My RWA chapter did this on our retreat about 7 years ago and I tested out as an ISFJ. Out of about 20 people, I was THE ONLY "S" in the group. I've always worried that doomed me as a writer, but I see lots of ISFJ's in here!

    I'm the quiet one, the one who'd rather be the worker bee than the boss. The blurb Pam posted about this type fits me to a T. I am an admin assistant, one of the jobs listed for my personality type.

    Very interesting blog. Sorry to be late to the party today. It's just been a heck of a day, which has culminated in me unfriending my mother on Facebook. Long story.


  111. Oh, and put me in the drawing for the book. :-)


  112. Pam, couldn't get here until late but wanted to be sure to add my thanks ... an interesting, thought-stirring post.

    Nancy C

  113. I'm the loner INTJ writer it seems.....

    But thinking about Vince's question on whether people want to read heroines like them.

    I want to read heroines I wish I was like in some fashion.

    For some crazy reason.....there aren't many INTJ heroines out there for me to identify with, probably because no one understands us as per the explanations: "Other people may have a difficult time understanding an INTJ." or "perplexingly mysterious"

    But there are things I like about other personalities, but if a heroine is too much unlike me, I have a hard time dealing with it, so I wouldn't say I need an INTJ heroine to read, since well, I'm not sure I've read any, but the more opposite the heroine is from you, the harder it will be to relate and enjoy.

    (BUT Mr. Darcy is an INTJ and let me tell you, reading him is like a breath of fresh air. I understand the jerk, he and I are compadres!) So I tend to like male characters more, and I think I write them better, as I've been told, because I just happen to have a personality that is not associated with women.

    And reading more of the explanations of my personality (which as Julie says, nails me like 90% of the time), I figured out WHY I'm the most unromantic woman on earth:
    ......INTJs (especially females) tend to see typical attraction tactics (such as feigning disinterest) as incredibly stupid and irrational.

    Now I understand why I don't get the whole romance thing....! And yet I write it. hahahahahahahahaha

  114. I wondered where you were going with this information. Very interesting and thought provoking. Thanks for the insight and giveaway!



  115. Clari sez: By the way, Pam. I recently downloaded and read both your books. LOVED them! Can't wait for your next one.

    Clari is queen for the day with the best comment of all! Snoopy dancing in Mississippi! So glad you enjoyed them! :)

    And...these personality tests are a little scary, aren't they? Now I can see how profilers (and people in the real world like The Mentalist) can figure out what a criminal would/could do in any given situation.

    BTW, Robin Caroll wrote a book for B&H title Injustice for All. In it, Remington Wyatt witnesses a murder can't go to the authorities because the authorities are the ones that committed the murder. She uses her expertise as an FBI psychologist to cover her trail when she runs from the law.

    In her new life, Remington does EVERYTHING opposite her personality, down to eating foods that she's never eaten before. She has a dog instead of a cat. She knew how to cover her tracks because she'd been the "tracker" so many times.


  116. Julie & Glynna, I haven't taken many of these tests, and the reason I've always disliked them is because the ones I've tried before are MULTIPLE CHOICE tests.

    I avoid multiple choice tests like the plague. They remind me too much of high school, and I cannot make up my mind. Yes, that says something about my personality.

    I liked this one because it was either/or. Sometimes I wasn't sure which of the two I REALLY preferred, so I went with the one that if I absolutely HAD to pick, I would. And sometimes, my LIFE is what dictates my choice. For instance, this one:

    I usually leave for appointments at the last possible moment or with extra time to spare.

    Okay, my PREFERENCE is to leave with extra time to spare, because I berate myself for being late, but I consistently leave at the last possible moment because I'm checking email one last time, putting one last load of clothes in the dryer, making the bed, finishing one more chapter in that book I can't put down.

    So, I WANT to leave early, but I don't, and I blame "tasks" for it.

    But, truthfully, most of the time, none of those tasks HAVE to be done.

    So, I had to be honest and say that I leave at the last possible moment.

    It's a sad fact of life.

  117. It was fun, wasn't it, Natalie? Got your name in the hat!

    Jenny, I didn't think to mention it here, but I wrote a post titled Wallflower Writer to the Rescue about how I managed to become a social butterfly (that's relative, btw) in spite of being an introvert. lol

  118. Marilyn, so sorry for your horrendous day. Having to unfriend your mom does not sound fun. :( Got you down for the drawing.

    Chill'N, thanks for stopping by and for commenting.

  119. Melissa, I find this whole thing fascinating. Maybe I missed my calling as a psychoanalyst. Good grief, I could have been a real-life MENTALIST!

    Now that I've got the personality types for most of you, I'm going to stalk you in the halls of the ACFW conference and see what you do, how you act, and what you say (or don't say!)


    I'll be watching... lol

  120. Melissa F, I'm not sure there was a real rhyme or reason for the entire post because I have NO qualifications to discuss this, but like I said, it's fascinating.

    And since I rely on FACTS, the uh...fact that everyone on here agreed with the assessment of this test of their personality, it just makes sense.

    And, furthermore, the fact that I KNOW some of you, I'm nodding in agreement.

    Now, I find it funny that I have the same personality type as Mary C, Cara, Debra M and several others, because all those ladies are just so COOL, but I've got enough common sense to know that we're not all cookie cut-outs and those 4 little letters are general observations of us.

  121. What a fun and enlightening mental exercise that was! Thanks to everyone who came out to play.

    I learned so much, not the least is that I've just touched the tip of the personality iceberg.

    The second thing that keeps niggling at me is that in the final analysis only 3% of our respondents (all women and almost 100% writers) fall into the top two most common categories for women.

    More study is in order... :)

  122. this was great but ...uh.. am I the only one who is surprised that Julie Lessman is an I?

    an I?

  123. Well, it took me a long time as I waded through the comments, but I found several someones like me... An ISFJ, and now I don't feel so alone, except alone is good. :)

    I = 89%
    S = 58%
    F = 74%
    J = 79%

    I'd love to be entered into the drawing for the book. I could use some help with creating awesome characters.

  124. Debra, maybe Jules is a closet Introvert... lol

    Ginger, so glad you persevered. I'm pretty certain that "dogged determination" is a strong trait of an ISFJ! lol

  125. This is great information on 'the personality'. & the test is fun.
    Please enter me for the book draw!
    Thanks so much,

  126. Janet, so glad you stopped by. It was definitely a learning experience, and the test is so helpful, isn't it?

  127. Pam -

    I finally had time to come by and look at your post that you recommended days ago via email. Very fascinating! It confirms a poll I did on my site over a year ago where I asked writers to take the MBTI test and indicate whether they were plotters or pantsters. It became apparent quickly that writers do NOT fit the population's general mold. You can read about my results here. If you haven't had the drawing yet, I'd love to be added. I've heard great things about that book! :)

    the character therapist ®

  128. Thanks for stopping by, Jeannie! I agree, writers do not fit the mold. lol