tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post1479617909419371451..comments2024-03-27T03:14:07.652-04:00Comments on Seekerville: The Journey Continues: Subplots 101Missy Tippenshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-4338437988529413862018-03-21T19:44:40.557-04:002018-03-21T19:44:40.557-04:00I'm late chiming in here, Jan, but I loved you...I'm late chiming in here, Jan, but I loved your post. Thanks so much! Susan Hollawayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176243201232863808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-58107226370569144472018-03-20T15:04:54.596-04:002018-03-20T15:04:54.596-04:00Jan,
Thanks for providing such a lovely post on s...Jan, <br />Thanks for providing such a lovely post on subplots. Love your use of I-70 and US 40. I remember traveling US 40 as a child...long trips through lots of small towns! I much prefer the interstate!<br /><br />For LIS stories that have a 55,000 word count, the subplot needs to be short and sweet. There's not much extra room for anything in depth...yet subplots--however light--do add a nice layer to the main story.<br /><br />Thanks for providing such interesting food for thought today as I tackle my WIP! Debby Giustihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09463321611980242375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-50228721194958169762018-03-20T13:24:46.727-04:002018-03-20T13:24:46.727-04:00Hi Ruth:
Remember in school when you had to diagr...Hi Ruth:<br /><br />Remember in school when you had to diagram a sentence like, 'Get over here right now!' and you couldn't find the subject? And the teacher said, "the subject is 'you' understood'"? <br /><br />I think there is also a 'you understood' for each writing rule and that is: "unless…".<br /><br />Ex. "Do not use multiple POVs in one chapter or one scene…unless the reader will always know who the POV character is."<br /><br />The trick here is that the writer has to know all the 'unlesses'. <br /><br />How about a post on all the 'unlesses'? Unlesses 101.<br /><br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-45598543805711917392018-03-20T13:00:37.159-04:002018-03-20T13:00:37.159-04:00Hi Jan:
Your comment about thinking about the sub...Hi Jan:<br /><br />Your comment about thinking about the subplots in your life is like a wakeup call! Perhaps it would be wise to look for and consider what would be subplots in your life. If it is true that 'the unexamined life is not worth living', then the existence of possible subplots should be examined. <br /><br />I'm looking forward to Subplots 201. How about using the environment as a mirroring subplot as I've seen done with earthquakes, dams, hurricanes, and draughts. Do subplots have to involve people?<br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-69192136275628858152018-03-20T09:31:13.614-04:002018-03-20T09:31:13.614-04:00Aw, Jan, thank you SO much for your kind comment -...Aw, Jan, thank you SO much for your kind comment -- it means all the more coming from a respected peer such as yourself. And, LOL ... if you can call almost 500 pages "whittled down"! ;)<br /><br />Hugs!!<br />JulieJulie Lessmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00406395645316139292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-60289883227501491422018-03-20T09:31:04.381-04:002018-03-20T09:31:04.381-04:00Nicki, that's smart to move your subplot to an...Nicki, that's smart to move your subplot to another story! Great use of words you had to cut. :)Missy Tippenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-27334711900431846632018-03-20T09:30:09.496-04:002018-03-20T09:30:09.496-04:00I agree that heaps of reading is the best way to l...I agree that heaps of reading is the best way to learn!Missy Tippenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-66232316542047672402018-03-20T09:12:43.637-04:002018-03-20T09:12:43.637-04:00Jan, thanks for this great post! Love the explanat...Jan, thanks for this great post! Love the explanation of subplots. Would love to win a copy of Cheryl's book. Thanks for the chance. This post has been very helpful. Going to work on subplots!Sally Shupehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06200001671203495990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-12340440258113760762018-03-20T08:01:34.919-04:002018-03-20T08:01:34.919-04:00I couldn’t agree more, Jan. As I’ve said before, I...I couldn’t agree more, Jan. As I’ve said before, I get some of my best ideas when I’m doing mundane things like laundry or dishes. Allowing things to simmer is always beneficial.Mindy Obenhaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049730175697756032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-73634556294861034662018-03-20T05:25:55.394-04:002018-03-20T05:25:55.394-04:00Oh, Bettie, thank you! It was so much fun to write...Oh, Bettie, thank you! It was so much fun to write that story, and I just finished Thea's story... and again, delightful. I want to live in Wishing Bridge! I could be besties with Maggie and those girls! :)<br /><br />I wanted this whole series to celebrate friendship and devotion... women uplifting other women. With a shot of romance!!!! :)Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-49363269135877866712018-03-20T05:23:44.873-04:002018-03-20T05:23:44.873-04:00And I didn't just like the book... I loved it....And I didn't just like the book... I loved it. :)Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-32812466452974223102018-03-20T05:23:24.998-04:002018-03-20T05:23:24.998-04:00I have killed dogs... birthed calves... saved stra...I have killed dogs... birthed calves... saved stray, pregnant dogs... birthed dwarf Nigerian goats... possibly killed another dog... had kittens... bred Australian Shepherds... bred designer cows if only to show that life makes nothing perfect on the human scale... :)... right now I'm breeding fictional sheep, re-dressing a sheep farm, raising a puppy from fictional stray dog, raising high-end Quarter Horses, and thinking therapy for a fictional miniature donkey who needs a friend and loving on Jake, the young pup that ran smack dab into a car in "A Light in the Darkness' and is now living life to the full in the lighthouse with Priscilla... :) Jake's life had taken a steep turn in the road... so had Priscilla's... but it came out okay because they found each other. Holy Moly, I'm sure there are more, but yes, there are animals in my stories, LOL! I'm such a farm girl!Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-11442719155549190402018-03-20T05:16:26.736-04:002018-03-20T05:16:26.736-04:00Sometimes this depends on genre... A family saga l...Sometimes this depends on genre... A family saga like Julie's books are a romance-based book, but they're actually family sagas... so there's a lot of license to be had there. You know I don't like to lock-and-load genres, I think good storytelling is good storytelling and can cross-genre and/or create its own. Jan Karon set the bar with Mitford and we all jumped on board because they were charming... but they broke all the established rules while they won our hearts! <br /><br />Vince, I do agree on the co-plots, where two stories with really little in common aren't woven together... they're just kind of in the same book. That was a thing for a while. I hope it's ended because you're right, it was a page stopper. I didn't finish any of those books because it wasn't storytelling... it was like reading periodical excerpts (McCalls magazine or Women's Day, etc.) only without a reason to go on... <br /><br />But then there's using multiple points of view... I did this in Welcome to Wishing Bridge and it was chancy... but I was pretty sure the reader would love it, because it drew them into the town and in that series the town is as much character as setting... The reviews are bearing me out, only one person said it was too busy and confusing for her/him and that's okay. We won't please everyone... <br /><br />So I didn't see the varied povs as subplots... but all part of the main plot of God's perfect timing.<br /><br />#rulebreaker<br />#lovetellingstories!!!! :)Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-91761969864274487802018-03-20T01:22:41.140-04:002018-03-20T01:22:41.140-04:00A very well thought out post! Very informative! I ...A very well thought out post! Very informative! I am working on a full-length after writing a string of novellas, and I'm reveling in the extra word count that allows for more exploration of subplots!Erica Vetschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08772984806574666959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-4486302204771606382018-03-19T21:34:58.674-04:002018-03-19T21:34:58.674-04:00Hi Jan. Great post on the value of subplots. They ...Hi Jan. Great post on the value of subplots. They can serve as either mirrors or foils to the main plot. While I do use subplots, I don't really plan them out ahead of time, they just sort of happen organically as I'm working through my main plot, if that makes sense.Winnie Griggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02295070748234710260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-87601855850835333752018-03-19T19:07:43.226-04:002018-03-19T19:07:43.226-04:00I didn't have to think too far for memories of...I didn't have to think too far for memories of my High School English XD<br /><br />I love subplots, though often times I don't even realize that I'm putting them in my stories. I didn't realize how many subplots and side stories I would put in until I had to write a novella under 20,000 words and had to cut out everything extraneous to make it fit (I still had 21,000 words when I was finished... yeah I can be a little wordy sometimes, can you tell? ;P). However I liked a particular subplot so much that I decided to write a sequel and add it as a sub plot to that book.<br /><br />I like subplots because I feel like they give you a better glimpse of the characters. Seeing how they react outside of the normal plot.Nicki Chapelwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00975226105127466970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-71802640014650205012018-03-19T18:55:31.364-04:002018-03-19T18:55:31.364-04:00Hi Phyllis,
Reading - lots of reading - is the be...Hi Phyllis,<br /><br />Reading - lots of reading - is the best training of all! Start asking yourself questions like: Why do I like this book? What scene brought tears to my eyes? What scene made me laugh? How did the author write that?<br /><br />There are no classes that can teach you that!<br /><br />God bless you, too. :-)Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-61564308858862274652018-03-19T17:37:19.175-04:002018-03-19T17:37:19.175-04:00Maybe this is why I haven't written a decent n...Maybe this is why I haven't written a decent novel... I've never given much thought at all to subplots. And I don't think they taught story writing in my school. So I haven't had any training. Just a whole heap of reading. But I enjoyed today's post! Thank you, Jan!<br /><br />May God bless you and all of Seekerville!Phyllis Wheelerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09314849446133170369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-18543331529074937002018-03-19T16:39:22.496-04:002018-03-19T16:39:22.496-04:00Vince! It's great to see you here this afterno...Vince! It's great to see you here this afternoon!<br /><br />As always, you've given us a lot to think about.<br /><br />I love the way you described your favorite kind of subplot - <i><b>seemingly</b></i> independent of the main plot, but with a reveal at the end that ties them together. You've just described some of my favorite books!<br /><br />That kind of subplotting requires a real plotter at heart, writing a full length novel. A writer needs the time (and expertise!) to set up the subplot and bring about the satisfying ending.<br /><br />And I think the line is very narrow between that subplot and the coplot you described. Sometimes those coplots can simply be poorly done subplots. And I agree about the alternating chapters! Why not just write two books and have done with it? But that's just my opinion. I know there are books written in that style that are very successful. The author accomplished what he set out to do. In a way, it's a case of needing to be very good at what you do in order to break the rules that way.<br /><br />I agree about the subplots mirroring the main plot. In fact, I think they're best used when they do that, and even more delicious when they're subtle.<br /><br />And now I have to read "Dreaming of Home!"<br /><br />Finally, you won't believe this, but I <i>do</i> think about subplots in my own life...usually after the fact, when they have intersected with the main stream enough that I see their effect...and I'm powerless to go back and change events when I could have. Is it God hammering in the lessons He needs to teach me? Maybe. <br /><br />Thank you for chiming in on this discussion! And now you see why I called the post "Subplots 101." Maybe someday I'll tackle "Subplots 201!"<br /><br />Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-45921204060083157682018-03-19T15:28:13.122-04:002018-03-19T15:28:13.122-04:00Hi Jan:
Subplots can be very annoying. They can a...Hi Jan:<br /><br />Subplots can be very annoying. They can also be surprising satisfying. <br /><br />I like a subplot to seem to be independent of the main plot so that a given outcome is not required for the main plot to have its HEA. I feel like a dependent subplot is just part of the main plot using secondary characters.<br /><br />I like a subplot (which seemed to be unrelated to the outcome of the main plot) to have a surprise ending that shows how important the subplot was to the unexpected solving of the main plot. The readers should say to themselves,<i> "OMG! Why didn't I think of that?"</i><br /><br />I like the loose ends in the subplot to be tied up in the epilogue providing the reader with a surprise second helping of HEA -- sending the reader to the computer to buy your next book or nearest backlist book out of sheer enjoyment.<br /><br />I don't like coplots, disguised as subplots, which act to compete with a weaker main plot. Even when the co-plot is as good as the main plot, it still drives me nuts when plot and co-plot share alternating chapters. Just when one plot is getting really interesting the chapter ends and you have a big letdown as the next chapter picks up and slowly gets up to speed on the second co-plot just as that chapter ends! (I call this the 'soap opera back after this commercial letdown'.)<br /><br />Subplots can mirror the main plot without the main plot characters realizing it at the time. They can also run the opposite direction of the main plot while still surprisingly providing the solution to the main plot question. There might be two subplots seemingly running contrary to each other, as tributaries, to the main stream of events. At the end they can amazingly merge to provide the solution to all three problems. Impossible? No, this is what Glynna Kaye did in her book, <b>"Dreaming of Home,"</b> in which the hero and heroine each badly needed the same house and the same -- but only -- job at the high school in a small town. Both hero and heroine were taking independent efforts to get their own way. (Tributary subplots). I just loved that book! (I've always thought of Glynna as the quiet genius Seeker.)<br /><br />BTW: I don't really think of Julie's Boston books as having sub-plots per se. Reading those books seems more like just jumping into life itself and watching things happen around you. (Do you really think about the subplots in your own life? :) <br /><br />Vince<br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-88172638570959111892018-03-19T15:22:41.818-04:002018-03-19T15:22:41.818-04:00Glad you enjoyed it, Pat! And have fun on your lea...Glad you enjoyed it, Pat! And have fun on your learning curve. It's a steep one, isn't it? But the Seekerville archives have lots of great posts to help! Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-54731832915702451832018-03-19T13:58:51.406-04:002018-03-19T13:58:51.406-04:00Jan, thanks for a great explanation of subplots. I...Jan, thanks for a great explanation of subplots. I'm still working on understanding how to work the main plot ha. But with your post, I'll now be thinking about what subplots might work in my WIP. YAY!) No need to put me in for the drawing. I already have Cheryl's book.Pat Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03751450778283690011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-56846896197633099262018-03-19T13:58:04.689-04:002018-03-19T13:58:04.689-04:00I love that too, Connie. I've written one west...I love that too, Connie. I've written one western, and I had always intended to give one of the secondary characters his own story. I even foreshadowed it in the book. But I haven't taken the opportunity to get back to him yet.<br /><br />*sigh* Unless you're a Ruthy, there are only so many books you can write in a year. ;-)Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-38108497420262641922018-03-19T13:55:54.226-04:002018-03-19T13:55:54.226-04:00Oh, yes! When you have a humorous subplot it's...Oh, yes! When you have a humorous subplot it's a lot fun, but it also is great for relieving tension when the main plot gets heavy.<br /><br />Thanks for that insight, Jenna!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-46487825276377151912018-03-19T13:27:45.841-04:002018-03-19T13:27:45.841-04:00I would LOVE to win Chery's book. I have the o...I would LOVE to win Chery's book. I have the one on emotion, tension and conflict. I thought you were giving away one of yours, blame it on no caffeine yet, but I can ALWAYS use a craft book.kaybeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14473317230010542909noreply@blogger.com