tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post4108545695144309641..comments2024-03-27T03:14:07.652-04:00Comments on Seekerville: The Journey Continues: Help Your Reader Fall in Love with Your CharactersMissy Tippenshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-25429628795962179132019-08-13T02:15:35.041-04:002019-08-13T02:15:35.041-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-11609748165223610392019-08-11T22:25:22.637-04:002019-08-11T22:25:22.637-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-48439089063216173522019-04-19T15:06:00.240-04:002019-04-19T15:06:00.240-04:00Info dumps are so easy to do! I recently took a se...Info dumps are so easy to do! I recently took a seminar on the first ten pages and it opened my eyes. �� I finished reading a book in March in which one crucial detail (the name of the disease the heroine was working to find a cure for) and it drove me crazy the whole time. It detracted from the urgency of finding the cure. The author explained the reasons why she left out the detail in the author note. Lee-Ann B Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-59169679761094955512019-04-16T11:35:06.254-04:002019-04-16T11:35:06.254-04:00Great post, Jan. I am trying to watch out for info...Great post, Jan. I am trying to watch out for information dump in my writing. My first draft of the book I'm writing definitely had too much of that. I also dislike it when a detail is left hanging. I can't think of any examples, but I always notice. Even some TV shows or movies can leave something hanging and it drives me nuts.Sandy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920692341258066387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-67294856041028634172019-04-16T11:30:43.970-04:002019-04-16T11:30:43.970-04:00I forgot two babies in the book I've been writ...I forgot two babies in the book I've been writing. I have a scene that takes place on May Day and the mom was taking her six-year-old daughter around town to deliver May baskets. But I somehow forgot that there are premature baby twins at home. After writing the scene, I said out loud, "Where are the babies?" Apparently I just left them home alone! I fixed it by having the girl just deliver May baskets in her neighborhood while the mom stands on the porch watching her.Sandy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920692341258066387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-16818847021193536902019-04-16T10:00:33.399-04:002019-04-16T10:00:33.399-04:00Hi Jan!
Thanks for this great article. I find I al...Hi Jan!<br />Thanks for this great article. I find I almost always info dump in the first scene of the first draft, which means that the entire first chapter is usually totally rewritten or chopped altogether. I've been struggling with how to do this in my current wip, and you have triggered some great ideas. Can't wait to get to it!Amy Grochowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05562049819827817651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-29310300770107112512019-04-16T09:48:47.587-04:002019-04-16T09:48:47.587-04:00Yeah, my heart sank when I realized I hadn't p...Yeah, my heart sank when I realized I hadn't put in the post date! LOLMissy Tippenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-63144845281609309782019-04-16T02:42:36.675-04:002019-04-16T02:42:36.675-04:00Hi Ruth:
I think you do very well what I like bes...Hi Ruth:<br /><br />I think you do very well what I like best concerning the early release of backstory which often creates 'instant' sympathy for the characters.<br /><br />Consider, "The Lawman's Second Chance", the hero's wife died of cancer and the hero does not want to subject his children to having a second mother also die of cancer. The heroine had her cancer cause her husband to leave her because he couldn't deal with it. She does not want that to ever happen to her again. <br /><br />I think the backstory was released very quickly in this story. The conflict is how can these problems be overcome? And I think this is 'future story'. What can they do today and tomorrow to work on their problems which are very real and very understandable? <br /><br />I like your idea that there can be a problem with 'too much of anything'. But then, I don't think you ever do that. <br /><br />In Missy's book, "The Reunion Valentine", I believe she gave away almost all the backstory on the first two pages which made me love the heroine at once and very eager to learn what happens to her from that day forward. This early release can be done and when it is, I love it! :") <br /><br />Vince<br /><br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-33080068209788275322019-04-16T02:27:14.984-04:002019-04-16T02:27:14.984-04:00Hi Jan:
I really can't object to your comment...Hi Jan:<br /><br />I really can't object to your comment above because as you state it, it is surely correct. I would like to elucidate the idea a little more.<br /><br />If there is a great deal of information given in a short space and it does not advance the story and it is not the type of writing a reader would really enjoy reading (ala Clancy details), then I would agree that is bad and deserves the term "backstory dump". Okay.<br /><br />Now, please consider this case, the exact same backstory information, say 9 facts, appears in about the same number of words but it does advance the story or it is such writing the it delights the reader, (like Betty Neels writing pages of description about high class restaurant interiors that her readers would love to visit and eat but never will), then that very same amount of backstory, 9 facts, is a valid 'information rich environment'. It acts to keep the reader turning the pages. So even if it is dense backstory, it is not a dump.<br /><br />My goal is to encourage writers to increase backstory information sooner and not to use the slow release of essential information to turn pages. Doing this seems to me to be a little like giving your readers caffeine to keep them awake writing in a way that would keep them awake! <br /><br />Again, this is just a different insight and not an objection to what you wrote which was fine.<br /><br />Vince <br /><br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-47312244804772258042019-04-16T02:08:09.230-04:002019-04-16T02:08:09.230-04:00Hi Erica:
You are so right about some genres bein...Hi Erica:<br /><br />You are so right about some genres being better suited to having an 'information rich environment' right from the get go. <br /><br />Take a suspense/mystery. First there is the action that comes from the suspense…the fact that danger can strike the hero and heroine at any time. Then there is the mystery to figure out to help turn pages. <br /><br />Even more: backstory is often needed to create the foundation as to why the hero or heroine was able to overcome the next attempt on their lives. <br /><br />So I totally agree with different genres there will be varying degrees of difficulty creating an 'information rich environment'.<br /><br />I have a slight difference on your comment: "If there is nothing left to discover about the hero or heroine and their motives, why keep reading?"<br /><br />There could be many reasons to continue if the conflict is not based on such discoveries. What about friends to lovers who know each other very well who must compete for the same job? Or are fighting on different sides of an environmental issue? Or when the heroine is a widow who has vowed never to marry another policeman and the hero from the past happens to be a policeman? All these cases demand a richer inciting incident and streams of conflict. <br /><br />I think all genres can be structured in a way that will maximize the opportunities to justify a great revelation of backstory sooner rather than later.<br /><br />Vince <br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-24806393176107396012019-04-15T21:02:31.254-04:002019-04-15T21:02:31.254-04:00:0):0)Samanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09302159600104330296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-37784720883214895622019-04-15T18:01:08.565-04:002019-04-15T18:01:08.565-04:00So much great advice! Thank you for sharing.So much great advice! Thank you for sharing.Connie Porter Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09234596850866029756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-59407139756312306232019-04-15T17:50:47.628-04:002019-04-15T17:50:47.628-04:00Jan, this is a great post, and yes, it's all a...Jan, this is a great post, and yes, it's all about the layers. Just like we get to know people little by little, readers want to do the same. Otherwise, what reason do we have to keep turning the page? Mindy Obenhaushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049730175697756032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-22130915353700840792019-04-15T17:49:01.906-04:002019-04-15T17:49:01.906-04:00LOL! I think we've all done that at least once...LOL! I think we've all done that at least once!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-33955504656734170032019-04-15T17:48:36.929-04:002019-04-15T17:48:36.929-04:00Thank you, Missy!Thank you, Missy!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-32290249692674334932019-04-15T17:48:17.313-04:002019-04-15T17:48:17.313-04:00That's also the beauty of first, second, third...That's also the beauty of first, second, third, and fourth drafts! Like you said, Tabitha, you have time to go back!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-15451571746546385282019-04-15T17:29:35.629-04:002019-04-15T17:29:35.629-04:00We certainly do!We certainly do!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-51908274734019360722019-04-15T17:28:16.557-04:002019-04-15T17:28:16.557-04:00Thank you for your comment, Vince! But I'm goi...Thank you for your comment, Vince! But I'm going to stick with the term "back story dump," pejorative or not.<br /><br />Because I see a big difference between an author giving important information at the beginning of the story - like Tolkien introducing us to his fantasy world or Clancy setting the reader in an information rich environment - and an information dump.<br /><br />Too many authors start their story wandering around in their characters' minds, replaying conversations that happened in the past, revisiting old love affairs, and reliving situations that really don't have anything to do with the story. <br /><br />I recently read an unpublished piece that spent the first scene in one character's POV as she relived a traumatic event ten years earlier, then the next scene relived the same event in another character's POV. That was information dump to the max! Yes, that traumatic event was important to the heroine's backstory, but it was revealed to the reader in the wrong way.<br /><br />I think genre makes a difference, like Erica said, but too often an information dump is just a tool authors use when they don't know how else to reveal the backstory.<br /><br />So, no information dumps...but the right information in the right place. Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-87859623235502937942019-04-15T17:15:06.926-04:002019-04-15T17:15:06.926-04:00I do the same thing, Ruthy. Every few chapters - m...I do the same thing, Ruthy. Every few chapters - maybe four or five - I go back to the beginning and read through. That helps catch the stray tidbits!<br /><br />And I remember that Mary wrote a blog post on "where's the baby?" Ever since then, whenever I read one of her books, I'm watching that baby!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-91288572995036739532019-04-15T17:11:13.268-04:002019-04-15T17:11:13.268-04:00I was thinking of RUE as I wrote this post! It'...I was thinking of RUE as I wrote this post! It's so much more fun for the reader to discover tidbits through <i>showing</i> rather than learning them through <i>telling</i>.Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-33588835496862950542019-04-15T17:09:19.880-04:002019-04-15T17:09:19.880-04:00I like the breadcrumbs, too! And to sprinkle heavi...I like the breadcrumbs, too! And to sprinkle heavily in the first 50 pages is good advice. Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-54723253683624058802019-04-15T17:09:09.830-04:002019-04-15T17:09:09.830-04:00Oops!! I accidentally posted a blog post just now ...Oops!! I accidentally posted a blog post just now that was supposed to be scheduled for later this month! I apologize. I quickly took it back to draft but hope it didn't confuse anyone who may have entered the blog during those 3 seconds. :)Missy Tippenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-27237904149589082532019-04-15T17:06:58.373-04:002019-04-15T17:06:58.373-04:00A good editor is a jewel!A good editor is a jewel!Jan Drexlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05609332074458434806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-50632683091691659862019-04-15T15:01:03.489-04:002019-04-15T15:01:03.489-04:00LOL, Ruthy! My thought was that readers would fear...LOL, Ruthy! My thought was that readers would fear he'd gone to the bathroom all over the house! hahahaMissy Tippenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-87276400325524362932019-04-15T14:32:09.512-04:002019-04-15T14:32:09.512-04:00I can promise you that too much of anything hits t...I can promise you that too much of anything hits the chopping block in romances, for sure... A little goes a long way. But Erica, what a great point, in a spy novel or a thriller or an action/drama, those details might be setting a stage.<br /><br />Vince, great insight on all of this.<br />Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.com