tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post4409877636382702506..comments2024-03-27T03:14:07.652-04:00Comments on Seekerville: The Journey Continues: Let's Talk #ownvoicesMissy Tippenshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comBlogger143125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-83429962214763781992019-10-13T00:42:16.549-04:002019-10-13T00:42:16.549-04:00Ruth:
I really enjoy marketing talk. LI does a gr...Ruth:<br /><br />I really enjoy marketing talk. LI does a great job. I'm still surprised about your landscape cover with no people on the cover. I hope it did as well as your other LI books from the same time period.<br /><br />Keep writin'g 'em. I'll keep reading 'em. Only you seem to be a lot faster than me.Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-83028314209017288652019-10-12T15:25:11.113-04:002019-10-12T15:25:11.113-04:00Vince, this is an interesting response with great ...Vince, this is an interesting response with great talking points and you guys have had a wonderful discussion over here at the coffee bar.<br /><br />Thank you for loving my heroines! :) I love them, too. They're spunky enough to be strong and fragile enough to be lovable... And they'll make GREAT MOMS.<br /><br />That formula works for me. And they do tend to put kids on my covers because all of my publishers know I love blended family themes and that kids are a huge part of that.<br /><br />Dogs, too. And the occasional horse! :)<br /><br />We can't make everyone happy, so if we can make our readers SO HAPPY that they spread the word, then our mission is accomplished. And that's a huge part of my personal marketing.<br /><br />Write so many books that you can't avoid being noticed. It's a formula I'm good at and advice I give to other authors all the time. <br /><br />Keep writin' books. :)Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-51963696972088371192019-10-11T14:57:27.873-04:002019-10-11T14:57:27.873-04:00Hi Stacy:
Wow! This is one of the best comments I...Hi Stacy:<br /><br />Wow! This is one of the best comments I've received in over ten years on Seekerville. Thank you.<br /><br />I can support almost everything you wrote except you are making an almost always fatal error in marketing. A mistake that has been proved wrong over and over again by direct marketers for over 100 years. (Direct marketers test their ads. They learn what works and what doesn't work. For lots of good information on this read, "Tested Advertising Methods".)<br /><br />Here is the error: Running an ad that will appeal to the most people. Get them to read the ad.<br /><br />In a book store this would be: write headlines and run pictures that will appeal to the most readers to get them to pick the book up.<br /><br />This makes total common sense. Almost all non-specifically marketing trained people make this mistake all the time. This even includes advertising people who don't know squat about direct marketing.<br /><br />In the first place, success is not how many people notice your ad. That's mostly irrelevant. What you want is the most "prospects", readers who would buy the book if they only knew it existed, to notice the book.<br /><br />Success in direct marketing is about selecting the attention of the best prospects, not the largest audience.<br /><br />Consider this: Let's say you really want to read a minority romance. You're a new social worker working a very diverse clientele. You go to the book store and out of two hundred books there are only three books with minority characters on the cover. You say, "Great, this is just what I am looking for." You look the books over and make your purchase. You might buy them all.<br /><br />That's direct. Match up the prospect with the book. The amateur marketers would not like to do this. They say, "If you don't show those minorities, more people will pick up the book."<br /><br />That's correct. They will. But are they going to pick up all 300 books in order to discover the diverse story they are looking for? Very unlikely. Will your trickily marketing cover be one of the 300 books looked at? Also, many readers are going to be very upset that you tried to trick them. That's not good marketing. That's not good for sales.<br /><br />When I was a broker selling houses everyone said, "Classified ads don't work. They are expensive and we only run them to placate the seller."<br /><br />I told them, "The ads are no good. They all sound alike, 'Three bedroom, two bath, two car garage, nice neighborhood, reasonable priced.' "<br /><br />If there are 500 ads like that in the Sunday newspaper, which one is a reader going to call? What is each agent's odds of getting a call? Besides most of the few calls you do get are non-qualified. The buyer quickly hangs up, "That's out of my price range, not the part of town I want, not the school district I want, etc."<br /><br />I'd ask brokers why do you run ads that are worded with so little chance of producing calls.<br /><br />"Ads don't sell houses! Agents sell house. And truth be told, we can't be specific in order to attract the few best prospects because ads are so expense. We have to make all our sellers believe that the ads we are running are for their property. Even the biggest companies could not afford to run a specific ad on every listing."<br /><br />I loved classified ads because I would sell houses in one or two weeks. My ads were so specific that there may have only been a handful of prospects, out of thousands of buyers, for the property. However, if they saw the ad, they were soon on their way to see the property. It was just what they were looking for.<br /><br />RT did a survey many years ago. They asked readers what they wanted to see less of in romances. The top item was books with children.<br /><br />If your story has kids, you must put them on the cover! Drive away the readers who hate reading about kids and attract those who love kids in stories. (Like me.)<br /><br />I hope this helps.<br /><br />VinceVincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-9799154771563597732019-10-11T04:41:10.658-04:002019-10-11T04:41:10.658-04:00Ladies, thank you for being here. It was an honor ...Ladies, thank you for being here. It was an honor to host you and I'd love to revisit what's going on with all of you next year... keeping the conversation going forward is a wonderful thing. Winners will be announced in tomorrow's Weekend Edition!Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-8652112114926596852019-10-10T22:50:23.955-04:002019-10-10T22:50:23.955-04:00Thanks, Missy. Waving at you from Connecticut.Thanks, Missy. Waving at you from Connecticut.BelleChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053178413674411382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-11583439409338379632019-10-10T22:50:02.949-04:002019-10-10T22:50:02.949-04:00Very well said, Erica. I think honesty is always b...Very well said, Erica. I think honesty is always best. And the more people discuss it I think the less overwhelming it will be for everyone. And hurray for progress!!! It's a wonderful thing to see.BelleChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053178413674411382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-55788759599427601752019-10-10T19:34:03.666-04:002019-10-10T19:34:03.666-04:00:-D :-D MeezCarriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09082724442387837601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-39455280248192895082019-10-10T19:25:34.488-04:002019-10-10T19:25:34.488-04:00Hi Vince! I'm late to this discussion because ...Hi Vince! I'm late to this discussion because I was having issues with my browser yesterday, but I'd love to chime in on your concerns. From my perspective, the decision to choose covers that don't feature faces of the characters has nothing to do with hiding. Even when I've used thematic covers for my books, my author photo has always been featured on the back cover, so readers clearly knew they were buying a book by a writer of color. <br /><br />I agree with all of Patricia's comments - in particular the desire for writers of color who write solid books to have their works purchased and read by readers from all walks of life. So in many senses, it is a business strategy to use covers that will appeal to a broader swath of readers. <br /><br />That said, I'd like to clarify that when my publisher and I made a decision to switch up my covers nearly a decade ago, it was warranted as a business strategy and in direct response to loyal readers who were offering advice that could help expand my base. In today's climate, I believe we would make a different decision,and maintain covers that reflect the hue and diversity within the characters of color featured in my books - to better celebrate the culture in a time when this is needed most. <br /><br />I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here, and this has nothing to do with authors or publishers wanting to hide who characters. Just as with many books penned by writers who are not considered writers of color have some covers featuring people and some featuring flowers or beach scenes, etc., I think it's fair that we get to choose what feels right and strategic for each of our books and our target audiences. Ultimately, the goal is to write the best books we can to reach readers of all kinds who care about characters of all kinds. The path to this result can be as multidimensional as our characters. :) <br /><br />Thank you again for sharing your thoughts! Stacy Hawkins Adamshttp://www.stacyhawkinsadams.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-86603876725592681342019-10-10T19:12:09.696-04:002019-10-10T19:12:09.696-04:00Great conversations!! I'm still catching up af...Great conversations!! I'm still catching up after being gone most of the day.Missy Tippenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05480008023330542958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-78291487994993833022019-10-10T18:52:55.241-04:002019-10-10T18:52:55.241-04:00I echo all of this (except the migraine part - i d...I echo all of this (except the migraine part - i didn't have one lol)MeezCarriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09082724442387837601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-78788235269322978502019-10-10T17:07:43.985-04:002019-10-10T17:07:43.985-04:00Welcome, ladies, to Seekerville, and thank you for...Welcome, ladies, to Seekerville, and thank you for sharing on this topic. I'm sorry I'm late to the party. I was laid low by a migraine yesterday, and lifting my head from the pillow was too much!<br /><br />I appreciate both your honesty, and your willingness to be gentle in discussing a topic that some might find uncomfortable. Sometimes, in an effort to not give offense, people avoid the topic...thereby diminishing it and giving unintentional offense. <br /><br />This writing/publishing business is tricky, because it is a business, but it deals with real, raw emotions, experiences, and truth. There are two bottom lines in publishing: money/profit and truth-telling. <br /><br />It can be a difficult balancing act. I'm happy to see previously closed doors opening, both in the publishing world and in our hearts and minds.<br /><br />Long may those trends continue!Erica Vetschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10512579637041637161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-42114549945341334792019-10-10T14:12:38.234-04:002019-10-10T14:12:38.234-04:00Dollars and cents should play a role but it should...Dollars and cents should play a role but it shouldn't be an excuse to shut people out of the publishing world. I hear that reasoning all the time but without giving people a chance, some publishers will never know. BelleChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053178413674411382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-29815400234649851432019-10-10T14:09:49.171-04:002019-10-10T14:09:49.171-04:00Thanks, Sandy. It's great being able to talk o...Thanks, Sandy. It's great being able to talk openly about this issue. BelleChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053178413674411382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-78174203470639175112019-10-10T13:55:47.451-04:002019-10-10T13:55:47.451-04:00Hi PatriciaW:
Thanks you for your well thought-ou...Hi PatriciaW:<br /><br />Thanks you for your well thought-out responses to my comments. I can tell from your view of my statement that 'minority writes need to write great books' and your view that 'often that a great book is not enough' requires me to qualify my statement.<br /><br />First: romances are not mainstream literature. Romances are much more like comfort food eaten for the good feelings they provide.<br /><br />When I read a romance I want a heroine who is my type, who I could fall in love with, and live a lifetime as happily ever after as possible.<br /><br />My type is Terry Garr, Renee Zellweger, and Gretchen Corbett--the lawyer girlfriend on the Rockford Files, (and my wife who looks like them). Many people have types they like best. I won't buy (and have never bought) a romance with the word "billionaire" in the title. If a billionaire can't get the girl, he's a joke. I almost never read a paranormal.<br /><br />I want a heroine who will make a good match as a wife. If you want me to read your book about a "Billionaire", it better be a lot better than great. It better be getting a lot of buzz in the media as a 'must' read. That's what I mean by 'great'. The book must be so good that people will read it when it is not their type of romance. <br /><br />Some fans do not want to read romances about cowboys and some won't read romances about cops. What's wrong with that? Are critics telling me that I have to eat some weird flavors of ice cream for diversity purposes?<br /><br />The real problem with diversity books is that in romance there may be only a small market. Romances are a fantasy. They are like a sweet bubble bath after a pressure-filled day. And yet there are those who say, "You can't have your fantasy or your ideal type. Read what we want you to. It's for social justice!"<br /><br />It's not going to happen. I want a heroine like Terry Garr. I want a heroine like the ones on "Small-Town Hearts", "The Lawman's Second Chance," and "The Unexpected Groom". I can see myself happily married to them.<br /><br />I can hear the complaints: "They are too much alike. You must diversify. It’s good PC it's even better for the gene pool."<br /><br />It's not going to happen. Here's an example: I read a great book by a minority author which had all minority characters. It was excellent. I gave it a top review and some women complained that the book was not that good! Here's what I liked: the book was set on St. John's island. One of the most beautiful places in the world. The story had great settings. I loved it. I had been to St. John's, I loved it, and I was reliving my stay by reading the book. Wonderful. Five star.<br /><br />That's what I mean by a great book, to the reader, a feature that sells the book over and above its being a romance. I think that is what it is going to take.<br /><br />Let's face it. Unless there is overt and effective discrimination, we are going to get the level of diversity as consumer dollars vote for.<br /><br />Consider Amish books: the Amish are a very small part of the population but Amish books sell well. Why? People want to read them. <br /><br />In short: write books people want to read. I'm sure Tony Hillerman sold a lot more books than there are Navajos. <br /><br />BTW: I wish all the diverse authors well in marketing their books. Can such authors come up with a diverse group that becomes as popular as the Amish? That would be great. Do it. Create a diverse sub-genre. Good luck.<br /><br />Vince<br />Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12707773426729777989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-35117052500750981612019-10-10T13:15:11.370-04:002019-10-10T13:15:11.370-04:00Thanks for joining in on this conversation, Beth, ...Thanks for joining in on this conversation, Beth, and for being open to hearing our perspectives. Stacy Hawkins Adamshttp://www.stacyhawkinsadams.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-57194278312575748062019-10-10T13:13:29.548-04:002019-10-10T13:13:29.548-04:00Lila, I agree with Toni and Kaybee. It's not f...Lila, I agree with Toni and Kaybee. It's not for everyone and it shouldn't be forced. If you wanted to consider including diverse characters as minor characters in your books - as friends, aquaintances or co-workers of your main characters - that might be a way to start expanding your audience of characters in a way that feels more natural. I often tackle the issue of writing about characters who are very different from me personally by writing the full back story for each character I plan to explore in a novel, and by going on to conduct a Meyer's Briggs analysis on these characters. This is very helpful! It allows me then to frame each of the character's motives and actions from a framework (and plot) based on their personalities, as outlined by the Meyer's Briggs descriptors, and not how I would behave or respond. Stacy Hawkins Adamshttp://www.stacyhawkinsadams.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-60085372234346055032019-10-10T13:08:54.631-04:002019-10-10T13:08:54.631-04:00Kaybee, I admire your courage in stretching your r...Kaybee, I admire your courage in stretching your reach as a writer. Google is always a good friend when starting to research, and I'm guessing it can help you find some Native American organizations or professors who would be willing to read your upcoming projects for voice, tone and cultural authenticity. They both sound like interesting projects - all the best with them.Stacy Hawkins Adamshttp://www.stacyhawkinsadams.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-26683393994305576932019-10-10T12:21:46.507-04:002019-10-10T12:21:46.507-04:00Aww, I live in Connecticut now but I do go to Mass...Aww, I live in Connecticut now but I do go to Massachusetts from time to time. Let's make it happen!BelleChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053178413674411382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-68200891731763340252019-10-10T12:21:08.615-04:002019-10-10T12:21:08.615-04:00Awww, Jackie. That's wonderful to hear!! I lov...Awww, Jackie. That's wonderful to hear!! I loved writing them. I'm sticking around Alaska since my new series is in Owl Creek, Alaska.BelleChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053178413674411382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-12557241899832589412019-10-10T11:48:59.083-04:002019-10-10T11:48:59.083-04:00Sandy, that's why it's fun to have the two...Sandy, that's why it's fun to have the two-day span.... not late, you're right on time!Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-88877466998725307072019-10-10T11:13:17.393-04:002019-10-10T11:13:17.393-04:00Oh, Lila, you've touched an interesting point....Oh, Lila, you've touched an interesting point. We tend to write what we know, what we empathize with, so the personality traits are understandable.<br /><br />But to me that's the internal of the person and can easily be used in any color range or ethnicity. But you'd have to feel comfortable doing that or it won't come off as authentic. And you always want to be authentic.Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-84350577301022455402019-10-10T11:10:21.304-04:002019-10-10T11:10:21.304-04:00Kaybee, don't hate me, but that's not alwa...Kaybee, don't hate me, but that's not always true.... and I can look at the dollars and cents of risk-taking and know that it's easier said than done. I think we have to understand that the bottom line is a significant thing in publishing because of the structure. It's a big line of employees... and rent.<br /><br />But having said that, I firmly believe that there's room for all of us. When we formed the Seekers, there were 15 authors bumping shoulders, vying for the few open spots in CBA. We joined forces and prayed one another into publication and all 15 ended up published by royalty-paying publishers.<br /><br />I believe the same should happen here, that if we all work hard enough and long enough and pray for one another's success, doors open. It's an amazing thing. Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-12861421348610389332019-10-10T11:06:42.912-04:002019-10-10T11:06:42.912-04:00Welcome, ladies. I enjoyed reading your posts. I&#...Welcome, ladies. I enjoyed reading your posts. I'm late to the party as I'm finally getting to read this, but I think it is a great topic. I just enjoy reading good books, no matter the ethnicity of the characters. Please enter me in the drawing.Sandy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920692341258066387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-3850026156338547502019-10-10T10:50:07.063-04:002019-10-10T10:50:07.063-04:00Lori, sweet.... I agree. It's like my eggs. Gr...Lori, sweet.... I agree. It's like my eggs. Green, blue, beige, brown, ivory and they're all eggs inside the shell.<br /><br />We humans can sure mess things up, can't we?Ruth Logan Hernehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550734775151341968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3649424089750316818.post-3547536214194372872019-10-10T10:47:06.194-04:002019-10-10T10:47:06.194-04:00I know April Gardner has written from Native persp...I know April Gardner has written from Native perspectives. You might want to reach out to her for research help.Toni Shilohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13522814940141250654noreply@blogger.com