Monday, June 1, 2020

Plot Driven or Character Driven


I remember an editor I was pitching too, back in the day, who asked me...one of his first questions...
"Are your books plot driven or character driven."


Have you tackled that question yet?

For some reason it reminds me of a joke I heard a whole long time ago,
"What's the next Sylvester Stallone movie going to be about?"
"I've heard it's a sweet, sad coming of age story about a shy Amish boy."
Yeah, right.
It's Sly Stallone.
It's gonna be a Sly Stallone movie.

What he and what many actors do is often character driven to the extent that a lot of actors play the same (or a madly similar) character over and over and over.

So I get character driven movies he makes. Sort of. They still have to have a plot. (occasionally debatable, but let's say they do)

I heard a really interesting podcast about True Grit.
About the book, the first movie and the second movie.
And how the book had to be radically changed because the first movie became a John Wayne movie.
Rooster Cogburn wasn't really the central character in the book. It was Maddie Ross, the young girl.
But you don't cast John Wayne in a movie and not let him be John Wayne, and not let him be the central character.
So the movie had to change. It was fascinating to listen to the talk.
I'll link to it at the end of this blog post if you are interested in some really inside stuff about True Grit.

So now I'll tell you what I told that very scary editor. 
I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I thought I had a lot of nerve to answer this way.

I think "Plot Driven vs Character Driven" is one of those 'writerly' conversations, like plotter or panster that really isn't a legit conversation, because NO BOOK can be written without a plot.
And NO BOOK can be written without developing characters who live out that plot.
The two influence each other to an extent that it's just not possible to have one without the other.

I love creating interesting, different, I hope--believable characters. 
For me the story comes first but the characters have to come to life. 

So is that plot or character?

The story has to GO SOMEWHERE. But if you do the characters right they are going to push and shove the story around as any living, breathing, reacting, thinking person would.
They are indivisible.

Woman of Sunlight isn't Woman of Sunlight if Ilsa is a savvy, confident citified business woman.
There is no story if she's that. There might be another story, but not this one.
What city woman knows how to climb a tree with a knife clamped in her teeth?

One thing I had Mitch and Ilsa do, very early on in a book between two perfect opposites, is recognize each other's skills and respect them. Often characters at odds like this will fail to recognize and respect each other and that can make a nice muddle. But I went a different way with Mitch and Ilsa. I had Mitch figure out pretty soon that he needed Ilsa's help and, instead of being over-protective, he relied on her to carry her weight.


Her knife filled her hand with no conscious decision to draw it.
Mitch’s pistol was out and in action. He fired.
Ilsa was too close to him. She knew from her years of hunting that if two targets were a distance apart, it was harder to hit both. Keeping the tree between her and the peppering gunfire, she reached overhead, snagged a low hanging limb and launched herself upward.
A hard hand grabbed her leg and yanked her to a halt. She looked down.
Mitch’s eyes met hers. He whispered, “Don’t kill him if you can help it.”
She nodded with one jerk of her chin, her heart almost hot with the respect he’d just shown her. Then her bossy husband let her go, turned back to the gunman and fired.

If Cam in The Reluctant Warrior is an easy-going, soft spoken man, then he gets reacquainted with his daughter quickly and easily after war has separated him for her most of her life.

But how can an army officer be soft spoken? This man barks out orders. Only it doesn't work well with a three year old.

That's the heart of the story. Think of the way people sometimes talk in a weird, sing songy voice to a child. That's a version of what Cam just doesn't know what to do.
When he asks for help, Gwen, his heroine, says, "You have to change your whole nature."

Which makes him cranky and he starts barking out orders at her.

From The Reluctant Warrior

“Tell me what to do, Gwen. I’m a desperate man.”
            She scowled at him as if he’d just asked the worst question in the world. Her shoulders slumped and she drew in a long, slow breath.
            “The way I see it, you have to, pretty much, uh…change,” she cleared her throat, “change your—your whole, um, n-nature.”
Dead silence reigned.
He was absolutely stunned by this useless piece of advice. He felt his temper rising and fought it down. 
Click to Buy 

“How do—” He paused because his voice sounded more like a wolf growling than a man speaking. Forcing himself to remain calm…somewhat…he began again. “How do I do that? Change my nature. My nature? Isn’t a man’s nature, well isn’t that who I am? You want me to change who I am? Come up with some false way of acting and talking so the children will love that pack of lies?”
She shrugged one shoulder a bit helplessly. “Yes.”
Silence again. She hovered near his feet where she’d spent about ten minutes tucking in a blanket that would come loose again the minute Cam lost his temper and ripped it off and threw it on the floor.
Now she walked toward the head of the bed. It struck him as very brave because he thought his anger had to show. Or maybe she was a halfwit that didn’t know what was best for her. Considering she’d just advised him to be a phony and a liar, he reckoned the second was right.
When she should have run for her life, she sat down on the side of the bed. It was narrow so there really wasn’t room for her. She rested one of her gentle hands on his chest and leaned far too close. He had to admit, reckless though her behavior was, it had driven most of his temper back down.
Didn’t matter, he knew how to find it.
“I’m afraid that’s what I want, Cam, and remember you asked. And I don’t think of what I just told you as advising you to lie.”
Hadn’t she just agreed with him when he’d asked her if he should lie?
“I can see that you love your daughter, Cam. I see the sadness in your eyes when she is afraid of you, or when she is happy with someone else like Trace just now. Love is in you, Cam. But you don’t show it well. To learn to show love, to learn to not snap out orders, to learn that a little girl wants smiles and patience and sweet words, that isn’t lying. And in fact, it doesn’t mean changing everything about yourself.”
Cam was mighty afraid that was just what it meant.
Character Driven
Plot Driven


Writerly conversations are fun, so let's have one. Can you think of a truly character driven book?


I'm thinking myself right now. Not coming up with much. Superhero movies? The characters are there but some of them aren't very real. I like some Batman's better than others. Is that the actor or the director or the plot?

Can you think of one with a plot but the characters just inhabit a story without being three dimensional?

Let's talk plot and characters and tell me which YOUR book is.

Leave a comment to get your name in a drawing for an Amazon Gift Card worth $20.20. (I got this idea for Ruthy!)




http://www.maryconnealy.com



58 comments:

  1. I was so excited when I saw the topic of your post, Mary. Character driven vs. plot driven is something I give absolutely no thought to whatsoever as I write, so this has been enlightening! I am contemplating now, but I just can't decide which way my stories lean, although I completely agree that character and plot will influence each other as the story progresses. I especially love that you said "The story has to GO SOMEWHERE. But if you do the characters right they are going to push and shove the story around as any living, breathing, reacting, thinking person would." They sure do, and most of the time we let them--as we well should. :-)

    I'm going to start paying more attention to what is driving my stories, so I have an answer if an editor ever asks me that same question. Thank you, Mary!

    Rachel

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    1. Hi Rachel. I'm struggling to leave comments. I just changed from MS Edge to Chrome and now it's working. If anyone else is having trouble, try that.

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    2. Rachel, I don't know if you need to try and analyze your work about character vs plot or what drives the work. If that HELPS you then great. If not, don't let it be a stumbling block to just getting the thing written. :)

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  2. I think your books are a wonderful balance of both plot and characters! I feel like I tend to enjoy books that are strong on both. If one dominates with the other lacking, I'm not as satisfied. I love feeling an emotional connection to the characters so I'm fine if the balance leans more that way.

    Great thoughts!

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    1. Heidi, I just had a HUGE struggle to get the story MOVING on the WIP. Oh, I had plenty of STORY to tell, but no ACTION. I had to really dig deep to find someone to shoot.
      BUT I DID IT.

      Poor Millicent.

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  3. Mary, I love your work... it makes me happy. And if that's a funny response to reading, well, so be it!

    And what a great answer to that question.... "Writer speak" hits me like "Edu-speak" or "Medical speak", the forms of language that are kind of put in place so that those pesky outsiders show themselves as know-nothings from the get-go.

    So, great answer on that one, books sure do need both to be good. And I'll claim being a pantser, but my editors want a synopsis which makes me a planner because it doesn't come out of thin air.

    My goal is to get far enough ahead on my work that I can sit down and read your newest book... soon! And that's my mini-reward. :) That and some chocolate.

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    1. Ruthy, right now with the world-gone-mad, I think we need MY BOOKS more than ever. Maybe I'll go find a riot and hand out a few copies.

      Probably not.

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  4. Interesting to read even for readers. Thank you for sharing.

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    1. Lucy, a reader might know as much or more about this as a writer. What can you think of as books that are character driven vs plot driven?

      I remember reading a book once (long ago, can't remember the title) and at the very end there was actually something HAPPENING and it took me by surprise. I thought the whole thing was just meandering through someone's fairly interesting life.

      I remember closing the book and thinking, "Huh, who'd've thought that book was going somewhere."

      I wasn't impressed obvious. Because whatever it was, is clearly NOT on my keeper shelf.

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  5. Trying to leave a comment with no luck this morning. This is a practice test.

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  6. Even for me who's just a reader this was interesting. There's a few books that have been a waste of time as nothing is going on. There's been a few that everything happens in a day or 2 and I don't like that either.

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    1. cathyann, I've had an editor say, "This all happens too fast. You realize your whole book is one week long, right?"
      So I get that. :)

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  7. I love your books, Mary! thank you for writing them! I just finished reading Wrangler in petticoats. Another complete opposite- to respect!

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    1. Aw, my western artist book! I love that one. I still pay extra close attention to western art. I developed a real love for it while researching that book.

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  8. Hi Mary:

    I'm no longer even sure there can be an authentic high quality plot-driven novel. If the characters are doing and saying what the plot demands and they are not doing and saying what they really would do or say in those given situations, then the novel is stilted and inauthentic.

    On the other hand, if the characters are doing what they would really do and say in each of the given situations, then how can you say that the characters are not driving the plot?

    If you can say about a novel or movie that the characters are only acting the way they are because the plot calls for it, then that's a bad production.

    Even a dedicated plotter who believes she has written a plot-driven novel, (and she should know since she wrote it), will produce a story that is indistinguishable from a character-driven novel if it is high quality and not stilted.

    I think that to the same degree that you can determine a novel is plot-driver or, for that matter, character-driven, to that same degree you can also determine its lack of quality.

    In any well written story the motivation, backstory, and foundations should be so well established that no one should be able to demonstrate that it was either character-driven or plot-driven. There would be no evidence to the contrary. The story should be a seamless organic whole.

    Come to think of it, this is probably a very circuitous way of saying what you said so well when you wrote:

    "I think "Plot Driven vs Character Driven" is one of those 'writerly' conversations, like plotter or panster that really isn't a legit conversation, because NO BOOK can be written without a plot.
    And NO BOOK can be written without developing characters who live out that plot.
    The two influence each other to an extent that it's just not possible to have one without the other."


    Amen.
    And thank you.

    Vince

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    1. Vince you put it very well. And THANK YOU FOR THINKING I DID, TOO!!! I appreciate that!

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  9. The closest thing I've read to a completely plot-driven story is a satire by Terry Pratchett--almost nothing the main character does affects his present circumstances or future (the plot) because in the background there are gods rolling dice as they have fun playing games with his life. (Occasionally the viewpoint shifts so we watch the gods decide what awful fate poor Rincewind is going to have to experience next). But again, it was satire, specifically regarding the Deus ex Machina mechanic. And satires can get away with a lot, when you know it's deliberately tongue-in-cheek.

    Otherwise, I definitely agree that it's way too hard to separate character and plot--in my opinion, a good book has both the characters affecting the plot and outside influences affecting the characters in a constant push-pull.

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    1. The harder I think the LESS I can come up with a truly character driven novel. Am I doing it wrong? Can't somebody come in here and explain it better to me?

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  10. I remember once reading a book that, at the end, they said something about one of the main characters was black. I HAD NO IDEA! That struck me as strange. The author just never developed that character enough for me to SEE him. Never gave him a point of view, and he was a main character. It was weird.

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  11. Can’t think of any that are completely character driven. Perhaps Amanda Barratt’s My Dearesr Dietrich and The White Rose Resists are more character driven than plot driven. Oh, and Allison Pittman’s The Seamstress.

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    1. I think A Lantern in Her Hand is character driven. It's just the life of Abby Deal. All her dreams and disappointments, a sod house, a husband she loved. Five children she adored, and all the dreams she'd had as a girl going by the wayside as she chose family over dreams.
      Wonderful book. One of my very favorites.

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  12. What a fascinating post, Mary! I really hadn't thought about books in this way before. I must not be very analytical. LOL I'll have to pay more attention to this in the future. I loved Woman of Sunlight. The interaction between Ilsa and Mitch is such fun, and your explanation here of their relationship tickled me. They're such amazing characters!

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    1. Hi Winnie. I try to be analytical, and yet, I just probably keep not being. I'm more of a daydreamer than an analyzer.

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  13. Thank you for the post, it was really interesting

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  14. Mary, I like the answer you gave the editor about a good story involving both character and plot. I start with the plot and then develop the main characters. The plot is easier, in my opinion. The characters take time to get to know and time for them to reveal their inner most secrets and foibles.

    Loved the excerpts you provided. You know those cowboys so well and they come alive in your stories! No wonder everyone enjoys reading Mary Connealy books!

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    1. I'm with you on time for the character to become three dimensional. It always takes me a while...to get to know him or her.

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  15. I agree with your answer, but now I want to know what the editor said after you answered that way. :-)

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    1. Amy, I can't remember. It was probably just a measuring stick and I measured up to being a LOSER!!!

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    2. You're not a loser, Mary. We all love you. :-)

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  16. I just finished The Rabbit Girls, a totally character-driven novel. Miriam and Sophia grow in their strengths while Henryk reflects and agonizes in his weaknesses. But without the setting of the Holocaust and the plot therein,the story would be...bleh. Any book I've read that is strictly plot-driven is also strictly forgettable!
    My book weighs heavily on character. It's a middle grade, historical novel and depends on the growth of the narrator in order to grab the reader.

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    1. I've never heard of it, Linda. Thank you for an example of a character-driven novel.

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  17. An interesting concept, but I agree with you, Mary. It has to be a mixture of plot and character.

    When I think about what drives the story, I have to think about the book I just finished reading (The Face of a Stranger by Anne Perry.) I'd have to describe the book as character driven. The detective, William Monk, has lost his memory and is trying to find out who he is - I thought it was a brilliant way to introduce the character, BTW.

    Even though the plot is all-important (as it should be in a mystery,) the character of Monk is what drives that plot forward.

    But how can you separate the two? All I can say is that some novels are more character driven than plot driven, and vice versa. I don't think it's ever one or the other.

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    1. I love Anne Perry's Inspector Monk series!

      You've got some great reading ahead of you if you continue the series!

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    2. This seems familiar. I think I've read some of this series but it was a long time ago. I kind of like Erica's take on characters that continue, like Sherlock Holmes or Jack Reacher or Harry Bosch. Some of them at least change a little. Unlike Jack Reacher who has, seriously, never changed one inch in all these books, has he? I keep wondering if he'll change now that Lee Child's brother is ghost writing them...

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    3. Maybe Reacher will get warm and fuzzy.

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    4. A warm and fuzzy Reacher? Is that something like a cuddly grizzly bear?

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  18. I think I must have been thinking of plot vs character driven novels incorrectly.

    I think of a Jack Reacher novels as plot driven. Because the character himself never changes. Sherlock Holmes is plot driven. Sherlock is exactly the same from book to book. It's the plot that changes.

    I think of character driven novels as The Secret Life of Bees, or Jane Eyre, or To Kill a Mockingbird. Novels where the driving force of the book is the change that overcomes the characters and the exploration of the human condition.

    I think of myself as a plot first novelist. I think up a plot, then try to find the character I think would be least likely to excel/succeed in that situation. Some of my writer friends are character first, where a character arrives in their head fully formed, walking and talking, and then they have to find a plot that fits the character.

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    1. OH MY GOSH! YOU'RE RIGHT ERICA! WHICH MEANS I ANSWERED THAT QUESTION WRONG!!!! EEK!

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    2. Not wrong, just from a different angle than I always had. It made me think, which is a good thing! :)

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  19. Your post has left me thinking. I would guess if the story is about a particular character, what happens to them, how they overcome, that would be character driven. If it's more about what happens in the story, the characters have to adjust and deal with it, but then that would be plot and character driven, as different types of characters would act/react differently and change the story outcome.

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    1. So what do you think, then Sally? Is it even a legit question?

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    2. Mary, I'm so confused! It's like the chicken and the egg question! I think you have to have one to have the other, or the other to have one. If you just have a plot, the characters won't feel real. If you have great characters, but the plot falls flat, what are they really doing? Talking heads? Will have to think harder and longer!

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  20. I have to admit, I give no thought as to whether a book is plot driven or character driven...I just like a book that keeps my interest from start to finish! And you writers on Seekerville seem to have a knack for that so keep on writing those interesting books!

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    1. Anne, I really don't think of it either. So that question didn't seem quite ... ahem ... useful.

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  21. Thanks for sharing this post now my mind is going in several different directions this really makes sense though! Love reading your posts and reading your books !

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    1. Sarah, a mind going in several different directions at once is an occupational hazard of being a writer!

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  22. Mary, I'm late today! I read most of the post earlier today and then got sidetracked. (the story of my life!) :)

    Great post! And I so agree with you about, of course, needing both. I think I tend to be drawn more to character and internal conflict. So external conflict and plot are a little more difficult for me to get a handle on. It's something I guess I'll always have to work on!

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    1. Missy that's interesting that character draws you. I think that's true. I always say EMOTiON is what makes the reader deeply involved. Well, that's all character, right? The way they are reaction to the plot.

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    2. Hi Missy:

      Is not external conflict, in large part, also generated by characters?

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  23. Think of a farmer's field as a plot that provides the opportunity for growth. Then think of the farmer who drives the tractor that actualizes that growth. Alone: nothing. Together: cornucopia.

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    1. So the LAND is the plot (like a plot of land???). And the farmer is the character???

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    2. That's it! You got it. Plots, like land, cannot drive anything while farmers can drive, like driving tractors. A plot is a way to look at things, what is planted where, but only characters can make things happen. No plot has ever driven anything.

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  24. This is great! As a new writer I'm only starting to understand plot driven & character driven but I like how you say they work off each other. I feel like I learned something powerful today!

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  25. I'm still not understanding plot driven or character driven, what exactly does that mean? I definitely enjoy your books regardless of what they are!

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